The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That’s not setting the bar very high. Jim doesn’t just not care about the UK, he absolutely loathes the place.

Not at all, I have a lot of friend and relations there and I fear for their future.

[DanLF]

	Quote:	Mikers
	It will increase his chances of becoming PM. It will retrench and harden his supporters to follow him more. Its an interesting concept though, can we put Nick Clegg behind bars now for lying about abolishing tuition fees when he was part of the coalition ?

I think there is a difference between promising and failing to deliver, and using your position in public office to purposefully deceive the public about the current situation. It is a provable lie that the UK was paying the EU £350 million a week.

But I guess if you can find evidence that Clegg never had any intention to deliver (and how stupid would you have to be to leave behind documentary evidence of this) then have at it.

And if you truly think Borris is still going to be the PM... Well if the whole Brexit saga isn't embarrassing enough for the UK, having your PM appear in the dock will sure do the trick.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	DanLF
	And if you truly think Borris is still going to be the PM... Well if the whole Brexit saga isn't embarrassing enough for the UK, having your PM appear in the dock will sure do the trick.

Regretfully it is not the British People that will decide this.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Its an interesting concept though, can we put Nick Clegg behind bars now for lying about abolishing tuition fees when he was part of the coalition ?

I think that saying that you intend on doing something, and not doing it (or not being able to accomplish it) is just a little different than saying that the UK pays so many millions when they didn't, and knowing it was a lie.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	DanLF
	I think there is a difference between promising and failing to deliver, and using your position in public office to purposefully deceive the public about the current situation. It is a provable lie that the UK was paying the EU £350 million a week. But I guess if you can find evidence that Clegg never had any intention to deliver (and how stupid would you have to be to leave behind documentary evidence of this) then have at it. And if you truly think Borris is still going to be the PM... Well if the whole Brexit saga isn't embarrassing enough for the UK, having your PM appear in the dock will sure do the trick.

I don't see much difference. Osborne was fairly clear:

"Put simply‎: over many years, are you better off or worse off if we leave the EU? The answer is: Britain would be worse off, permanently so, and to the tune of £4,300 a year for every household."

Boris's Bus is a similar kind of mechanics: 350million was the theoretical figure before the rebate was taken off and of course a whole other host of things that were EU>UK in direction financially.

Both are as bad as each other, but both are put across as fact.

Independent has an article which is quite good about why this will help him (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8934566.html). You have to remember in todays world its not the good guy that wins. Boris Johnson is the worst kind of person, but this kind of publicity will only help him.

	Quote:	Mikers
	I don't see much difference. Osborne was fairly clear: "Put simply‎: over many years, are you better off or worse off if we leave the EU? The answer is: Britain would be worse off, permanently so, and to the tune of £4,300 a year for every household." Boris's Bus is a similar kind of mechanics: 350million was the theoretical figure before the rebate was taken off and of course a whole other host of things that were EU>UK in direction financially.

You don't understand the difference between a projection of the future (which may yet turn out to be true - we simply don't KNOW yet) and an actual provable historic lie?

[DanLF]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I don't see much difference. Osborne was fairly clear: "Put simply‎: over many years, are you better off or worse off if we leave the EU? The answer is: Britain would be worse off, permanently so, and to the tune of £4,300 a year for every household." Boris's Bus is a similar kind of mechanics: 350million was the theoretical figure before the rebate was taken off and of course a whole other host of things that were EU>UK in direction financially. Both are as bad as each other, but both are put across as fact. Independent has an article which is quite good about why this will help him (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8934566.html). You have to remember in todays world its not the good guy that wins. Boris Johnson is the worst kind of person, but this kind of publicity will only help him.

You are again comparing a predicted future (Cleggs promise to deliver after being elected, Osbourne prediciting post Brexit Britain) to a statement that is provably untrue.

Yes, if Osbourne has a time machine and knows that Britain is paradise post Brexit then he is lying. But we can safely assume he doesn't, and we can't put people in prison for failing to predict the future correctly. Michael Fish would still be locked up.

Borris told a lie 3 years ago that was as much of a lie then as it is today.

[Blueangel]

This is the problem...

	Quote:	Mikers
	There are several ways as we all know that you could make the point that by submitting your money to the Brexit parts for membership you are not aware of it's spending policy without labeling people as unintelligent.

The Brexit party's website and social media clearly states...

	Quote:
	Help make history and become a registered supporter of The Brexit Party today:

https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/s...62818473938945

...yet if you search the social media of people who have paid their £25, too many believe that they have paid for membership. This is an entirely random thread on the matter that I found via a google search ...

https://twitter.com/paulrey99/status...19776829575168

These people have not been misled. They've chosen to not read, or correctly interpret the what the payment entitles them to. There are also many people who have proudly announced their payment and voting intention despite being paid up members of other political parties, for which they should have been expelled according to the rules of their party membership. I find it all really sad.

If people resent being described as x, y or z, then don't live up to it in the first place.

Of course this doesn't apply to all Brexiteers and just as an example, a much loved friend, the guy who introduced me to my OH, has today posted a poll on social media asking if you believe that a no deal brexit is beneficial to the UK? He's voted 'yes'. He's a very bright, intelligent guy and most definitely not racist, but he's never been politically astute. The responses from genuinely concerned friends are quite upsetting to read.

Another friend who voted Leave, complained bitterly to me before the referendum that she was being bullied in work because of her views, which baffled me because I thought I knew her views. Over the last 3yrs, she's become more and more entrenched, and now freely says that she believes everyone must only live in the country they were born in from cradle to grave. To me, it feels like watching someone become radicalised.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	DanLF
	You are again comparing a predicted future (Cleggs promise to deliver after being elected, Osbourne prediciting post Brexit Britain) to a statement that is provably untrue. Yes, if Osbourne has a time machine and knows that Britain is paradise post Brexit then he is lying. But we can safely assume he doesn't, and we can't put people in prison for failing to predict the future correctly. Michael Fish would still be locked up. Borris told a lie 3 years ago that was as much of a lie then as it is today.

We won't agree, but for me they are not far off each other. If Osborne (or Cleggy) were so unsure about the future, they would have inserted the words "I think" or "we could be" but they didnt, they informed it as fact. Clegg said the Libdems WOULD abolish tuition fees. Later he said "actually we won't". Because he said he would, people voted for him. Boris said we gave 350 million each week to the EU, which was the headline gross figure without accounting for the rebate and other deductions. So he will say he meant the figure before deductions, and again you're back to interpretation. the result: people voted for him (for brexit).

You can give it the whole future vs current thing no problem, but the reason for the prosecution is because of the influence it had on people and so votes and from that aspect both were as bad as each other.

[DanLF]

	Quote:	Mikers
	We won't agree, but for me they are not far off each other. If Osborne (or Cleggy) were so unsure about the future, they would have inserted the words "I think" or "we could be" but they didnt, they informed it as fact. Clegg said the Libdems WOULD abolish tuition fees. Later he said "actually we won't". Because he said he would, people voted for him. Boris said we gave 350 million each week to the EU, which was the headline gross figure without accounting for the rebate and other deductions. So he will say he meant the figure before deductions, and again you're back to interpretation. the result: people voted for him (for brexit). You can give it the whole future vs current thing no problem, but the reason for the prosecution is because of the influence it had on people and so votes and from that aspect both were as bad as each other.

I have no problem if you dislike what Osbourne said and find it comparable, but no judge in the UK is going to agree with you, and that is because of that future vs current time thing .

[John William]

Breaking News - Boris Johnson ordered to appear in Court over £350 million pound claim
in Brexit Campaign

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	The figure heads would not be there if they did not get the support.

So you can't have a political opinion unless you have it all sorted out? Do you apply the same standard to everybody including remainers? After all it's not as if remaining wouldn't bring its own set of problems and issues.

	Quote:	John William
	Breaking News - Boris Johnson ordered to appear in Court over £350 million pound claim in Brexit Campaign https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

Feck me, this is the THIRD time today this news has been posted. Not sure what’s more concerning, that it’s actually happening or the number or desperate swivelled eyed remoaniacs delighted that it’s happening.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Feck me, this is the THIRD time today this news has been posted. Not sure what’s more concerning, that it’s actually happening or the number or desperate swivelled eyed remoaniacs delighted that it’s happening.

Hey, some of us thought BoJo was a shitter of the first water long before the referendum was but a twinkling in his eye!

I did like him on HIGNFY though to give him his due...seems getting a shellacking on there is your ticket to right-wing fame. Ian and Paul are the country's true kingmakers.

[DanLF]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Feck me, this is the THIRD time today this news has been posted. Not sure what’s more concerning, that it’s actually happening or the number or desperate swivelled eyed remoaniacs delighted that it’s happening.

Depends how badly you want Brexit. Boris was Brexits best hope. His job as PM was going to be doing "bugger all" until the UK fell out the EU by default with no deal.

Perhaps the next in line for PM will try to do the same... but no one does "bugger all" better than Boris.

[John William]

	Quote:	DanLF
	Depends how badly you want Brexit. Boris was Brexits best hope. His job as PM was going to be doing "bugger all" until the UK fell out the EU by default with no deal. Perhaps the next in line for PM will try to do the same... but no one does "bugger all" better than Boris.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Not sure what’s more concerning, that it’s actually happening or the number or desperate swivelled eyed remoaniacs delighted that it’s happening.

Proud 100% Remainiac.
Definitely not swivel eyed - Widdecombe won that prize hands down last week.
Curious and intrigued that this is happening, but I wouldn't say delighted.

Also wondering why Gove isn't being summonsed and sincerely wishing it was Priti Patel also. She's been very quiet of late.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Proud 100% Remainiac. Definitely not swivel eyed - Widdecombe won that prize hands down last week. Curious and intrigued that this is happening, but I wouldn't say delighted. Also wondering why Gove isn't being summonsed and sincerely wishing it was Priti Patel also. She's been very quiet of late.

Widdecombe, who doesn't give a flying F. about the future of the UK as long as we get good old Blighty back. Ah, the golden days.. when everyone knew their place.
Who else will they drag out of retirement to rant and roar at us, I wonder?

Gove will be the next PM, I reckon.

Best thing about this whole Boris affair that the Leftists haven't cottoned on yet - it's all very well crowd funding once, but if this sets a precedent it'll be them that suffer long term. This is because in court cases, the wealthy normally have the upper hand. And the wealthy aren't normally Leftists.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That’s not setting the bar very high. Jim doesn’t just not care about the UK, he absolutely loathes the place.

Another claim with no basis in fact, not that you place much value in facts?