The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Some may simply avoid biting the hand that feeds them. With a sufficiently large group that's virtually guaranteed to apply to some.

As opposed to "cutting your nose off out of spite"?

I think that encapsulates the whole madness of Brexit.

	Quote:	baboon
	Wouldn't significantly dispute that. Somehow it is also interesting that perhaps 95% of the people behind the stuff you are (rightly) praising are remainers.

Couldn't agree more. Fantasy or rose tinted glasses applies here.. reality is the cultural arts, music, drama, art have taken huge hits across the country. Hell, even primary schools no longer run music or art or drama, instead they source out to private clubs who come in after school at a cost to parents. Needless to say, these privately run clubs have less and less kids attend as the austerity years rumble on. Two private clubs in primary I know about have stopped running.

If you have money, sure, you can access things, but the quality and output is diminishing across the cultural arts as private doesn't quite cut it with no regulatory in-house assessments and standards.. it amounts to very little when we think of the creative bursts we once knew. Expensive rents in towns mean less art and craft shops and no pottery any more except in the larger markets which run once a month in my town.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Expensive rents in towns mean less art and craft shops and no pottery any more except in the larger markets which run once a month in my town.

Nope, not rents, its the business rates that are killing of small shops. When we had our shop in the uk the business rates where our single biggest monthly bill, by a long way. And god help you if you're 2 days late paying it!! you'll have bailiffs knocking at the door (even when it was the council that set up the direct debit for the wrong date).

But that's ok, the council will set up enterprise zones, out of town, with free parking and no business rates for all those nice huge chain stores.

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Couldn't agree more. Fantasy or rose tinted glasses applies here.. reality is the cultural arts, music, drama, art have taken huge hits across the country. Hell, even primary schools no longer run music or art or drama, instead they source out to private clubs who come in after school at a cost to parents. Needless to say, these privately run clubs have less and less kids attend as the austerity years rumble on. Two private clubs in primary I know about have stopped running. If you have money, sure, you can access things, but the quality and output is diminishing across the cultural arts as private doesn't quite cut it with no regulatory in-house assessments and standards.. it amounts to very little when we think of the creative bursts we once knew. Expensive rents in towns mean less art and craft shops and no pottery any more except in the larger markets which run once a month in my town.

It’s a wonder that Porridge, Some
Mothers do have ‘em, Open all Hours, Get Carter, The Long Good Friday, Pink Floyd, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Queen,Nick Drake etc etc. were possible to have come into existence in the 1970s in the UK what with the country being on it’s arse economically. Who knew there was such a strong correlation between the (non existent) austerity and music and drama?!

In fact, I wish there was, because then we would never have had to put up with Ken bloody Loach.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It’s a wonder that Porridge, Some Mothers do have ‘em, Open all Hours, Get Carter, The Long Good Friday, Pink Floyd, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Queen,Nick Drake etc etc. were possible to have come into existence in the 1970s in the UK what with the country being on it’s arse economically. Who knew there was such a strong correlation between the (non existent) austerity and music and drama?! In fact, I wish there was, because then we would never have had to put up with Ken bloody Loach.

Most of those are a bit before my time (and yours I'd have thought, if the 1983 part of your name is accurate!), but the ones from my life, Queen (Mercury, May, Taylor) and Nick Drake, were all privately educated, so austerity wasn't really biting for them and they could afford to indulge in music lessons and the like.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It’s a wonder that Porridge, Some Mothers do have ‘em, Open all Hours, Get Carter, The Long Good Friday, Pink Floyd, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Queen,Nick Drake etc etc. were possible to have come into existence in the 1970s in the UK what with the country being on it’s arse economically. Who knew there was such a strong correlation between the (non existent) austerity and music and drama?!

Actually (and FWIW) several of those came into existence or at least had their roots in the swinging, booming 60s.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	As opposed to "cutting your nose off out of spite"? I think that encapsulates the whole madness of Brexit.

Not sure why that would necessarily happen out of spite.

Sure, being pro Brexit is probably against their own economic interests but that doesn't make it "out of spite".

[amogles]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Some may simply avoid biting the hand that feeds them.

The corrolary of that would be that their allegiance can be bought by whoever writes the biggest checques.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	StirB
	Eurovision begs to differ! In the last 20 years, we've had one major selling artist, Adele, I don't think anybody else gets onto any top selling album charts worldwide. Care to elaborate on these? Sounds disconcertingly vague. I'd say the Beeb has certainly had some success in the sphere of comedy, drama and documentaries in the last 20 years, but have we really had much (disproportionate amounts or even proportionate amounts of) success in academia and the arts? We've had a winner of a Physics nobel two years since 2000 and Chemistry three years, I think, that's not bad going I guess.

Hi, here is a report from 2018 describing the success of the British Music industry both at home and globally. https://www.bpi.co.uk/news-analysis/...lobal-success/

World rankings of Universities globally: https://www.topuniversities.com/univ...-rankings/2019

Britain 4th in survey of best cities in the world to live in: https://www.timeout.com/things-to-do...s-in-the-world

im picking them out at random but you can find the field you want if you try on google.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	amogles
	The corrolary of that would be that their allegiance can be bought by whoever writes the biggest checques.

How does that apply to the comment made by baboon (which directly prompted Urs Max's response)?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	greenmount
	And yet, you are living in Switzerland.. Plus the collective "We". I love it. Who's "we"? What are you doing and what's your worth? Are you sure the great people from your country would be happy to be associated with you (if all of them had lived)? Just a thought. It is not a pointless dig about nationalism. Many people try to understand UK and the British people these days. Sorry if it bothers you.

'We' is the people of the UK. Not to be confused with wee.

Îm doing my work here in Switzerland. My worth isnt very much, compared to bankers certainly. I think yes, the Great People Of the UK, would be happy to go for a pint with me, though its unlikely we will meet.

If you want to find out about understanding the british people, can I recommend using the question "I'd like to find out about British People" as a starting line, not carping on about nationalism. This tends to be misconstrued as sneering arrogance.

[John William]

Great article from Polly Toynbee in the Guardian yesterday of the Brexit dreamers that make up all 10
of the Tory Leadership candidates.

The Guardian - Behold the Tory Leadership candidates - all in denial, all in dreamland

[Sandgrounder]

Just on the subject of The Guardian (I know how much the Brexiters LOVE it... )...

...this guy is pretty much spot on.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	StirB
	Eurovision begs to differ! In the last 20 years, we've had one major selling artist, Adele, I don't think anybody else gets onto any top selling album charts worldwide..

Ed Sheeran. Sam Smith. Clean Bandit.

I think Elton John holds some kind of record.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	greenmount
	It is not a pointless dig about nationalism. Many people try to understand UK and the British people these days. Sorry if it bothers you.

Eh?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It’s a wonder that Porridge, Some Mothers do have ‘em, Open all Hours, Get Carter, The Long Good Friday, Pink Floyd, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Queen,Nick Drake etc etc. were possible to have come into existence in the 1970s in the UK what with the country being on it’s arse economically. Who knew there was such a strong correlation between the (non existent) austerity and music and drama?! In fact, I wish there was, because then we would never have had to put up with Ken bloody Loach.

Oi, Grandad.. stop yer 70s noise or I'll force feed you Kes.

No wonder you believe in non-existent austerity in your Swiss knitted cardy and slippers. Bless!

	Quote:	marton
	we are saved :d source it has taken three years to agree a trade deal with a tin pot country, how long for larger countries!

[amogles]

	Quote:	Mikers
	' If you want to find out about understanding the british people, can I recommend using the question "I'd like to find out about British People" as a starting line, not carping on about nationalism. This tends to be misconstrued as sneering arrogance.

All correct, except the word in bold.

[StirB]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Ed Sheeran. Sam Smith. Clean Bandit. I think Elton John holds some kind of record.

If you look at the top selling albums since 2000, only Adele gets anywhere near the top worldwide, the others, not so much.

I'm sure overall Sir Elton is one of the top selling artists of all time, but in the last 20 years, barely a ripple.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	amogles
	The corrolary of that would be that their allegiance can be bought by whoever writes the biggest checques.

Why? Not being outspoken isnt' the same as being buy-able (though I'd agree that everybody can be "bought" if the incentive can include extreme and in many cases illegal measures).