The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Well, if you are going to wave the whataboutery wand and quote partially and out of context, you can bend it to fit any quote you want. The fact is that these are ELECTED representatives acting like children because they have to cover up the fact that they are out of their depth and couldn't negotiate their way out of a phone box. At least the kneeling footballers were at the top of their game and could actually do what they were employed to do.

You poked fun at Trump for bedwetting over an anthem protest and then did exactly the same thing.

I suppose you think the LibDem T-Shirt stunt is the way elected officials should behave?

P.S. they’re elected officials doing exactly what the people who elected them want them to do.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	P.S. they’re elected officials doing exactly what the people who elected them want them to do.

Well, that's the bit that speaks volumes and is actually the point.

They are in the hub of the parliament where they can actually effect material change directly and democratically. Why don't they just resolve to f00king TURN UP and do that rather than take the money and constantly whine that nothing changes in the EU? Of course it won't change or move in the direction they want if they don't ever turn up.

That way, they wouldn't need to do a protest or whatever that was.

It was the laughable futility of it all and the totally missed irony that they are the ones at the sharp end.

But, hey, let's indulge in a bit more whataboutery to completely whiz past the point a bit further.

[marton]

Ladies night

EU leaders on Tuesday nominated German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen as the next European Commission president, capping almost 48 hours of frenzied negotiations with a surprise pick for the bloc's top job.

The leaders nominated Christine Lagarde, the French managing director of the International Monetary Fund, as president of the European Central Bank, to succeed Mario Draghi.

	Quote:	marton
	Ladies night EU leaders on Tuesday nominated German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen as the next European Commission president, capping almost 48 hours of frenzied negotiations with a surprise pick for the bloc's top job. The leaders nominated CONVICTED CRIMINAL Christine Lagarde, the French managing director of the International Monetary Fund, as president of the European Central Bank, to succeed Mario Draghi.

FTFY. Which one did you vote for?

Good to see the Franco-German stitch up is complete. One more exhibit for the case that the EU is incapable of reform and will plough ahead with more of the same. MOAR Europe. MOAR Globalism. That'll halt the rising tide of populism for sure.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Well, that's the bit that speaks volumes and is actually the point. They are in the hub of the parliament where they can actually effect material change directly and democratically. Why don't they just resolve to f00king TURN UP and do that rather than take the money and constantly whine that nothing changes in the EU? Of course it won't change or move in the direction they want if they don't ever turn up. That way, they wouldn't need to do a protest or whatever that was. It was the laughable futility of it all and the totally missed irony that they are the ones at the sharp end. But, hey, let's indulge in a bit more whataboutery to completely whiz past the point a bit further.

Never mind the fact that the EU Parliament can't effect material change, they simply don't want to be there. Do you not get that? The clue is in their name.

And you may call it whataboutery, I call it hypocritical. I notice you never answered my question about the Lib Dem protest. Funny that.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And you may call it whataboutery, I call it hypocritical. I notice you never answered my question about the Lib Dem protest. Funny that.

After a google around (seeing as you didn't provide a link and I didn't know what you were on about), it seems they were sitting in the parliament with yellow t-shirt protesting Brexit. So? Same thing goes. They are IN PARLIAMENT, they should be using their vote.

There's some mileage in pointing out that they weren't actually disrespecting the youth orchestra playing live in the chamber in the same way as the squealers turning their backs but, nonetheless, they just should vote. Same as the other members.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Never mind the fact that the EU Parliament can't effect material change, they simply don't want to be there. Do you not get that? The clue is in their name. And you may call it whataboutery, I call it hypocritical. I notice you never answered my question about the Lib Dem protest. Funny that.

In 1999 the European Parliament triggered the downfall of the entire European commission over a corruption scandal involving former French prime minister Édith Cresson

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	After a google around (seeing as you didn't provide a link and I didn't know what you were on about), it seems they were sitting in the parliament with yellow t-shirt protesting Brexit. So? Same thing goes. They are IN PARLIAMENT, they should be using their vote. There's some mileage in pointing out that they weren't actually disrespecting the youth orchestra playing live in the chamber in the same way as the squealers turning their backs but, nonetheless, they just should vote. Same as the other members.

I think both groups are pathetic. When (if) we are outside Europe the one thing you need is friends so you can form the trade deals. A set of moderatly mature people there from various European countries. And the Brits ? Half of them turning their back looking both rude, stupid and childish at the same time, while the other half - the "goodies" in this, the gentle LibDems, choose in front of a youth orchestra to have t-shirts with swear words on them.

The rest of the EU must have just been holding their heads in their hands at the state we are in.

[John William]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think both groups are pathetic. When (if) we are outside Europe the one thing you need is friends so you can form the trade deals. A set of moderatly mature people there from various European countries. And the Brits ? Half of them turning their back looking both rude, stupid and childish at the same time, while the other half - the "goodies" in this, the gentle LibDems, choose in front of a youth orchestra to have t-shirts with swear words on them. The rest of the EU must have just been holding their heads in their hands at the state we are in.

For better or worst - there's no question that Brexit has made Britain the laughing stock of the world !!

It's only a question of time before someone brings out a cartoon series on it and just look at the wealth
of characters you can choose to send up Britain and the British !! When you have BoJo running for PM,
Nigel Farage as The Joker, together with Jacob Rees-Mogg emerging from his cryogenic sarcophagus as
MP for North-East Somerset & Chairman of the ERG; not to mention the living dead like Bill Cash with
no doubt the cartoon heroine of the piece being Anne Widdecombe in a Strictly come Brexit role.

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Why don't they just resolve to f00king TURN UP and do that rather than take the money and constantly whine that nothing changes in the EU? Of course it won't change or move in the direction they want if they don't ever turn up.

Am I missing something?


It was day 1 and they were all there. They haven't had a chance not to turn up yet.
Have they said they will boycott?


Have to agree, they are out of their depth though.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	Am I missing something? It was day 1 and they were all there. They haven't had a chance not to turn up yet. Have they said they will boycott? Have to agree, they are out of their depth though.

It was harking back to the days when their overlord, Farage, was bleating about fishing quotas (or some-such verbal spillage) but only showed up to cast his vote 2 or 3 times max.

Still, you're right. There is more of them this time so maybe they'll figure out some kind of reluctant timetable of who will show up now and again.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	It was harking back to the days when their overlord, Farage, was bleating about fishing quotas (or some-such verbal spillage) but only showed up to cast his vote 2 or 3 times max. Still, you're right. There is more of them this time so maybe they'll figure out some kind of reluctant timetable of who will show up now and again.

The EU are worried they WILL turn up, its what they all dont want. Every debate ruined by a brexit MEP either trying to talk it out, vote against it, or otherwise ruin european policy. If the EU had it there way when Brexit MEP's turned around for the anthem they should have carried on and walked out of the parliament never to be seen again.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Mikers
	The EU are worried they WILL turn up, its what they all dont want. Every debate ruined by a brexit MEP either trying to talk it out, vote against it, or otherwise ruin european policy. If the EU had it there way when Brexit MEP's turned around for the anthem they should have carried on and walked out of the parliament never to be seen again.

Well, it's their elected right to vote however they see fit.

I think the EU is worried that they'll try to influence things out of sheer bloody-mindedness without actually reading and digesting, or even understanding the issues on the table, not the fear that they'll simply turn up.

At least if they vote intelligently, and things still don't go their way, they have a legit argument, rather than not turning up and not voting. Almost like real politicians...

But chlorinated chicken, yeah?

Brazil sent one million salmonella-infected chickens to UK in two years

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	But chlorinated chicken, yeah? Brazil sent one million salmonella-infected chickens to UK in two years

But trade with non-EU countries, no? That should make you happy. I always thought you're the half-empty type.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	But chlorinated chicken, yeah? Brazil sent one million salmonella-infected chickens to UK in two years

What’s your point?

Brazil was cutting corners and shipping contaminated food, the EU dealt with it. Not even remotely related to the chlorine story, unless you just saw ‘chicken’ in the headline.

	Quote:
	The EU temporarily embargoed chicken products from some Brazilian sources and significantly increased border checks on the rest. Other countries followed suit. The Brazilian authorities resolved to crack down on the poor food safety standards.

	Quote:	greenmount
	But trade with non-EU countries, no? That should make you happy. I always thought you're the half-empty type.

Look at the wider picture. There are many people who say there should be no FTA with the US in part because of its food standards (chlorine washed chicken). Whilst making this argument the UK has imported one million salmonella infected chickens from Brazil. Aside from the fact chlorine would have killed the salmonella, it makes the argument look rather ridiculous.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	...Aside from the fact chlorine would have killed the salmonella...

....aside from the fact that it wouldn't.

https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/ch...-illness-safe/

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Look at the wider picture. There are many people who say there should be no FTA with the US in part because of its food standards (chlorine washed chicken).

The main argument is about the underlying animal welfare standards, actually.

Plus - as Sandgrounder wrote, the EU reacted and banned the suspect sources and increased controls on others

So what is your point again?

	Quote:	baboon
	....aside from the fact that it wouldn't. https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/ch...-illness-safe/ The main argument is about the underlying animal welfare standards, actually. Plus - as Sandgrounder wrote, the EU reacted and banned the suspect sources and increased controls on others So what is your point again?

Oh, you think Brazil has better welfare standards than in the US? Bless.

Also, both you and Sandgrounder missed the fact that the embargo’s haven’t worked:

	Quote:
	However, data analysis by Repórter Brasil, working with the Bureau and the Guardian, found that salmonella-contaminated meat from Brazil continues to be picked up in EU border checks. Tests have discovered salmonella in more than 370 consignments of Brazilian chicken and other poultry meat shipped to the EU since April 2017. Salmonella-contaminated meat has been shipped to more than a dozen EU countries, including the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Ireland and the UK. At least 1,359 tonnes – the equivalent of about a million birds – of contaminated poultry was exported to the UK in that period, although the true figure is likely to be higher as not every shipment is as thoroughly tested for disease. While all consignments of meat are physically examined, only about one in five batches are subject to mandatory microbiological testing, meaning some contaminated meat could be getting through undetected.

Oh and finally perhaps “killed” was the wrong word, but chlorine washed chicken has been proven unequivocally to reduce the prevalence of salmonella in chicken meat.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Look at the wider picture. There are many people who say there should be no FTA with the US in part because of its food standards (chlorine washed chicken). Whilst making this argument the UK has imported one million salmonella infected chickens from Brazil. Aside from the fact chlorine would have killed the salmonella, it makes the argument look rather ridiculous.

So what.

According to you the UK should open its borders to all the world anyway after Brexit. That will make all imports perfectly safe as no problems will ever be detected from that point onwards.