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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #20781  
Old 04.07.2019, 18:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Prove the chemicals used to rinse chicken in the US are bleach. Take your time Mr Chemistry teacher.
I'll try to keep it simple for you as apparently nothing else works.

The main ingredient used in bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite.
Sodium Hypochlorite in water releases Chlorine
It is the chlorine that is the bleaching agent.
A solution of Chlorine in water (i.e. bleach) is used in the US to wash chicken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite

Edit - I've got a degree in Chemistry. Your call...
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  #20782  
Old 04.07.2019, 18:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The whole chlorine thing is just an excuse to put up a non-tariff barrier with the US to ensure there is no trade deal. It’s double standards and it’s pure protectionism.
For the nth time, No.

The EU has minimum animal welfare standards; something I'm pretty sure would be supported by the majority of EU consumers (Particularly and ironically the Brits). If an importer is allowed to undermine those standards then those imports become unfair competition.

If the US would be prepared to raise its standards to the EU level (which are generally still too low btw), there would be no problem with importing anything. They already do it with beef (not allowed to be hormone treated in the EU so the US have non-hormone treated production....or possibly they cheat but that is another story). Nothing to stop them with chicken. But to allow their overcrowding of birds but using bleach to disguise the result is clearly unfair against EU producers.
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  #20783  
Old 04.07.2019, 21:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll try to keep it simple for you as apparently nothing else works.

The main ingredient used in bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite.
Sodium Hypochlorite in water releases Chlorine
It is the chlorine that is the bleaching agent.
A solution of Chlorine in water (i.e. bleach) is used in the US to wash chicken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite

Edit - I've got a degree in Chemistry. Your call...
So you have a degree, do you? You must be such fun at parties.

I'm afraid you'll have to try again though. Sodium hypochlorite is not used in washing chicken carcasses.

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For the nth time, No.

The EU has minimum animal welfare standards; something I'm pretty sure would be supported by the majority of EU consumers (Particularly and ironically the Brits). If an importer is allowed to undermine those standards then those imports become unfair competition.

If the US would be prepared to raise its standards to the EU level (which are generally still too low btw), there would be no problem with importing anything. They already do it with beef (not allowed to be hormone treated in the EU so the US have non-hormone treated production....or possibly they cheat but that is another story). Nothing to stop them with chicken. But to allow their overcrowding of birds but using bleach to disguise the result is clearly unfair against EU producers.
I'll ask you the same thing as I asked belleblue: are food standards in Brazil higher than in the US?
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  #20784  
Old 04.07.2019, 22:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll ask you the same thing as I asked belleblue: are food standards in Brazil higher than in the US?
OK, I see what you're doing here...you count on some stereotypes to get the "right" answer "Sir, sir, it's Brazil! Brazil has lower standards!", but I'd like to know what do you really know about food safety in Brazil and the USA.
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  #20785  
Old 04.07.2019, 22:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So you have a degree, do you? You must be such fun at parties.
A degree in chemistry?!!! They're a lot of fun at parties. You've led a sheltered life lad 😂
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  #20786  
Old 04.07.2019, 23:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A degree in chemistry?!!! They're a lot of fun at parties. You've led a sheltered life lad 😂
Indeed, home made hooch to melt your teeth!
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  #20787  
Old 04.07.2019, 23:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll ask you the same thing as I asked belleblue: are food standards in Brazil higher than in the US?
Do you know the answer in case of: Soda beverages, milk, lettuce, cured meat, and flour?
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  #20788  
Old 04.07.2019, 23:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll ask you the same thing as I asked belleblue: are food standards in Brazil higher than in the US?
The entire point has gone down the tube so the only option open is to labour an irrelevant non-detail. Brexit in a nutshell.
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  #20789  
Old 05.07.2019, 00:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Meanwhile back in Europe a rare piece of complete EU agreement: all sides, whether for or against brexit and from all European countries agree that the election of the new EU President is a stitch up https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8987841.html
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  #20790  
Old 05.07.2019, 01:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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  #20791  
Old 05.07.2019, 01:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So you have a degree, do you? You must be such fun at parties.

I'm afraid you'll have to try again though. Sodium hypochlorite is not used in washing chicken carcasses.
Aaand this is why we need experts, you've absolutely whooshsed on the point that was being made there...re-read then we'll explain if you need it.
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  #20792  
Old 05.07.2019, 04:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Meanwhile back in Europe a rare piece of complete EU agreement: all sides, whether for or against brexit and from all European countries agree that the election of the new EU President is a stitch up https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8987841.html
Read it again and note the difference between selection and election! The parliament still have to vote on it. We’ll have to wait and see how big you “all” is in the end.
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  #20793  
Old 05.07.2019, 09:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll ask you the same thing as I asked belleblue: are food standards in Brazil higher than in the US?
Irrelevant. The relevant measure are EU standards.

US chicken don't meet EU standards hence no imports. Brazilian chicken do hence they're allowed in, except for those that don't, obviously. Likewise with US vs Argentinian beef, to mention another case.
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  #20794  
Old 05.07.2019, 09:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Read it again and note the difference between selection and election! The parliament still have to vote on it. We’ll have to wait and see how big you “all” is in the end.
I've read it again, and it accurately reflects the parts of the EU that concern many people. Lets take a few quotes:

EU leaders chose Ursula von der Leyen as their pick to replace Jean-Claude Juncker as the leader of the European Union’s executive branch despite the fact she was not on the ballot paper as a candidate and has no manifesto.

The European Council effectively ignored the European parliament’s spitzenkandidat, or “lead candidate” system, which was supposed to inject an element of democracy into the selection of commission president – instead nominating the defence minister, who is largely unknown outside Germany.


“The council has the right to propose a candidate to lead the commission to lead the parliament. However, what the council doesn’t have the right to do is to ignore all the candidates that have been voted for by European citizens.” He said the approach of carving up other top jobs taken by EU leaders was “clearly against the treaties”.

Dacian Ciolos, leader of the liberal Renew Europe group set up by Emmanuel Macron, called for a constitutional convention to overhaul the process.

“What we need first and foremost is to democratise the process of appointing leadership roles in the EU. We can discuss names, gender balance, geographic balance: but for as long as we don’t have a transparent, democratic process for selecting those who lead Europe, we will not have achieved satisfaction,” he told MEPs.
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  #20795  
Old 05.07.2019, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A degree in chemistry?!!! They're a lot of fun at parties. You've led a sheltered life lad 😂
Saying "I have a degree" to prove your point is only marginally less cringeworthy than "I'm a teacher", "I'm a vegan", "I'm from Wigan Yorkshire" or "I have an MBA".

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Aaand this is why we need experts, you've absolutely whooshsed on the point that was being made there...re-read then we'll explain if you need it.
You're wrong. It's Bad Science, it's terribly misleading, and it's why "expert opinion" (Lol), should always be questioned. Whilst one could argue that in some cases a chlorine solution containing a bleaching agent in minute concentrations may be used in antibacterial washes, to say it's bleach (household/industrial chemical typically based on sodium hypochlorite) is just false.

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Irrelevant. The relevant measure are EU standards.

US chicken don't meet EU standards hence no imports. Brazilian chicken do hence they're allowed in, except for those that don't, obviously. Likewise with US vs Argentinian beef, to mention another case.
It's not irrelevant, it proves the point I'm making. There were calls to ban Brazilian chicken imports in 2017 due to quality fears. Only certain Brazilian meat plants were affected in 2018, instead of a complete ban, yet in spite of all this salmonella infected chicken is still arriving in the EU. Where is the ban now? Do you not see the double standards? Do you not see that the EU is only banning chlorine washed chicken to protect EU farmers? Do you not see that whilst people are pulling their hair out over the prospect of chlorine washed chicken, there is already substandard meat arriving in the EU?
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  #20796  
Old 05.07.2019, 10:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You're wrong. It's Bad Science, it's terribly misleading, and it's why "expert opinion" (Lol), should always be questioned. Whilst one could argue that in some cases a chlorine solution containing a bleaching agent...
Nope, another fail...as Baboon explained VERY clearly above, a Chlorine solution cannot contain a bleaching agent, as a Chlorine solution IS a bleaching agent.

I presume you now understand, and won't try to obfuscate again. Thanks.
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Old 05.07.2019, 11:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's not irrelevant, it proves the point I'm making. There were calls to ban Brazilian chicken imports in 2017 due to quality fears. Only certain Brazilian meat plants were affected in 2018, instead of a complete ban, yet in spite of all this salmonella infected chicken is still arriving in the EU. Where is the ban now? Do you not see the double standards? Do you not see that the EU is only banning chlorine washed chicken to protect EU farmers? Do you not see that whilst people are pulling their hair out over the prospect of chlorine washed chicken, there is already substandard meat arriving in the EU?
Yes, but the substandard meat was, when detected, stopped at the border, as all the links seem to state.

Of course it can "arrive" but whether it's allowed through is another thing. Not sure why you're not getting this.

Yes, some stuff got through but that doesn't mean it complies with the standards or is subject to different standards, it just means it wasn't detected.

Sneaking dodgy gear over the border in the hopes of being undetected isn't a new thing, you know.
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  #20798  
Old 05.07.2019, 12:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's not irrelevant, it proves the point I'm making. There were calls to ban Brazilian chicken imports in 2017 due to quality fears. Only certain Brazilian meat plants were affected in 2018, instead of a complete ban, yet in spite of all this salmonella infected chicken is still arriving in the EU. Where is the ban now? Do you not see the double standards?
The article you linked is complete chaos. The timeline is completely unclear, and the author mixes weight and shipments at will. At best it's done deliberately, but it may just as well be due to sheer incompetence to generate as many clicks as doable. I'm not sure which is worse.

Just one example, what time do the "20 months" cover? The first or the last 20 months of those two years, or some completely unrelated time?
"At least 1,359 tonnes – the equivalent of about a million birds – of contaminated poultry was exported to the UK in that period [the two years since April 2017]"
"An analysis of internal documents obtained from the FSA and international shipping records reveal how the companies between them shipped at least 400 tonnes of contaminated chicken to the UK over 20 months."

Still ...
"Thirteen shipments of contaminated chicken from Brazil have been detected by UK border inspectors in 2019. "
... which looks like a big drop but it's impossible to assess by how much due to the switches from weight to shipment and back.
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Do you not see that the EU is only banning chlorine washed chicken to protect EU farmers?
Of course they try to protect the domestic industries. It's their fricking job!

Now, banning chlorine may have effects to that end but that doesn't mean it's the primary motive. For instance standards in raising the chicken aren't met in the US either. Even if the chlorine issue were resolved, the latter would still keep US imports out of the EU.
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Do you not see that whilst people are pulling their hair out over the prospect of chlorine washed chicken, there is already substandard meat arriving in the EU?
What I do see is that the problem is being worked on, and from the looks of it successfully, see the third quote from it. But again, your article is too chaotic to assess the amount of success with certainty.
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  #20799  
Old 05.07.2019, 14:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

No doubt this must be manna from heaven for the Brexiteers yesterday, Lol.

EU TV - Last Night of the Proms performance by Ann Widdecombe MEP

And here's the chorus to accompany the Ann Widdecombe speech:

Rule Britannia !
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.


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  #20800  
Old 05.07.2019, 14:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No doubt this must be manna from heaven for the Brexiteers yesterday, Lol.

EU TV - Last Night of the Proms performance by Ann Widdecombe MEP

And here's the chorus to accompany the Ann Widdecombe speech:

Rule Britannia !
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.


Makes a change to MEPs turning their backs when the Rhodesian national anthem is played.
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