The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Clocker]

It is also quite possible that a large majority of those who didn't vote would have or still would vote 'Leave' and simply didn't bother as they knew it would go that way in any case and their vote wouldn't have made much difference in widening the margin further.

Meaning if they actually voted in a second referendum, then the majority of those voting 'Leave' overall would be even greater, say around four or five million, rather than just over one and a quarter million...

Given the result of the referendum and having seen the EU's bizarre behaviour since the result, the opposite is highly unlikely.

	Quote:	Clocker
	It is also quite possible that a large majority of those who didn't vote would have or still would vote 'Leave' and simply didn't bother as they knew it would go that way in any case and their vote wouldn't have made much difference in widening the margin further. Meaning if they actually voted in a second referendum, then the majority of those voting 'Leave' overall would be even greater, say around four or five million, rather than just over one and a quarter million... Given the result of the referendum and having seen the EU's bizarre behaviour since the result, the opposite is highly unlikely.

#deluded

[marton]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Only in your opinion. Furthermore the result of a general election is implemented swiftly after the vote. The result of the referendum has not been implemented as yet, despite more than three years having passed, so we are not actually at the stage of being able to annul as we have yet to see and experience the new situation of being free and out of the EU. So we'd need to wait for at least four or five years after the leaving date at the earliest before considering our options on a possible new referendum.

"the result of a general election is implemented swiftly after the vote". Not really, political parties are voted in based on their manifesto and these are never implemented quickly, if at all! So general elections are held despite an inability to see and experience their manifesto in action.

The alternative view is that we see and experience Brexit has not been implemented in over three years so it is time to think again!

[Clocker]

	Quote:	marton
	The alternative view is that we see and experience Brexit has not been implemented in over three years so it is time to think again!

The view of a minority.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	Clocker
	It is also quite possible that a large majority of those who didn't vote would have or still would vote 'Leave' and simply didn't bother as they knew it would go that way in any case and their vote wouldn't have made much difference in widening the margin further. Meaning if they actually voted in a second referendum, then the majority of those voting 'Leave' overall would be even greater, say around four or five million, rather than just over one and a quarter million... Given the result of the referendum and having seen the EU's bizarre behaviour since the result, the opposite is highly unlikely.

Given how close the initial result was I think it is impossible to say either way.

It’s highly possible that a lot of people who would have voted remain didn’t vote because they never thought people would be stupid enough to believe the lies and actually vote for the leave option.

We could make up dozens of different scenarios as to how the vote could have been different but in reality nobody has a clue.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	The British just have made an incredible mess of it.

Theresa May made an incredible mess of it. She went in with no idea of what she wanted, a whole host of red lines and demanded the backstop. The deal she brought back was the closest option that could incorporate her demands.

Fast forward...

Now we have PM Johnson who, during his time as May's Foreign Secretary, hauled his ass all over Europe telling various ambassadors (with the notable exception of the Slovakian ambassador) that he personally was in favour of FMOP. Do you see the irony?

May's deal is over, gone, dead. Both sides need to get on with negotiating an entirely new deal. This is where words matter. Just count up how many times you hear various Cabinet ministers and the EU telling the media that they won't "reopen the deal" or "are refusing to discuss the deal", but which deal? It all refers to May's deal which everyone agrees is dead, so they're talking twaddle.

The HoC has held a number of indicative votes, and there have been many HoL votes too. There are also a whole host of economic forecats and indicators that the Cabinet cannot ignore, regardless of what they say to the media. Any PM worth their salt, particularly one with the data capabilities of Cummings to hand, should be able to use the huge amount of information they have to cobble together a deal that would pass through Parliament before it's presented to the EU. If the PM can't manage that, than he's not fit to be a union rep, nevermind a politician!

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Theresa May made an incredible mess of it. She went in with no idea of what she wanted, a whole host of red lines and demanded the backstop. The deal she brought back was the closest option that could incorporate her demands. Fast forward... Now we have PM Johnson who, during his time as May's Foreign Secretary, hauled his ass all over Europe telling various ambassadors (with the notable exception of the Slovakian ambassador) that he personally was in favour of FMOP. Do you see the irony? May's deal is over, gone, dead. Both sides need to get on with negotiating an entirely new deal. This is where words matter. Just count up how many times you hear various Cabinet ministers and the EU telling the media that they won't "reopen the deal" or "are refusing to discuss the deal", but which deal? It all refers to May's deal which everyone agrees is dead, so they're talking twaddle. The HoC has held a number of indicative votes, and there have been many HoL votes too. There are also a whole host of economic forecats and indicators that the Cabinet cannot ignore, regardless of what they say to the media. Any PM worth their salt, particularly one with the data capabilities of Cummings to hand, should be able to use the huge amount of information they have to cobble together a deal that would pass through Parliament before it's presented to the EU. If the PM can't manage that, than he's not fit to be a union rep, nevermind a politician!

You forgot to mention Cameron...

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Clocker
	The view of a minority.

A minority that just shy of double the population of Switzerland - to offer a little perspective for non-Brit members.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	Given how close the initial result

Initial result? At the moment this is the only result and hopefully it will stay that way for generations to come! Fortunately for now no second vote is planned. The UK would look pathetic if they entertained the notion of holding a second vote just because a few people can't stick the first and keep moaning on forever more.
I am deeply ashamed that the UK did not leave much sooner, even before March this year.

Close? I don't call a margin of well over one and a quarter million, close, not at all.
Close for me would have been if there had been a difference of less than 50'000.
Very close would have been under 10'000.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You forgot to mention Cameron...

He's not even in politics anymore. He's a non entity at this point.

[bowlie]

Regardless of how a second referendum would be decided. Neither of the two leading political parties has any detailed idea of what they want.

The entire period of time since the referendum all I have heard is what people don’t want and very, very, very little of what they are prepared to accept.

Hard border with Ireland? .... No! Oh wait that means being in the single market ....No! Oh shit, lets kick the ball down the road into that backstop.

In the single market? ... No, a thousand times No! Oh wait, that means tariffs with our leading trade partner.

Oh wait! Why don’t we just leave? That will solve all the problems...

[Clocker]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Why don’t we just leave? That will solve all the problems

It won't solve all problems and will undoubtedly create some, but that doesn't meant to say the result of the referendum should not be respected.

	Quote:	Clocker
	Close? I don't call a margin of well over one and a quarter million, close, not at all. Close for me would have been if there had been a difference of less than 50'000. Very close would have been under 10'000.

I do. It's around 2% of the UK population. Is more like a margin for error.

[Clocker]

	Quote:
	I do. It's around 2% of the UK population. Is more like a margin for error.

No. Almost 4% of the votes actually. The population doesn't come into it as some people don't have the vote. Nice try though.

In percentage terms anything less than 0.1% could be called as close. Less than 0.05% would be very close. Anything higher is mere delusion on that part of the losing side.
I'm amazed the 'Remain' side aren't asking for a recount as another way of trying to stall things.

	Quote:	Clocker
	No. Almost 4% of the votes actually. The population doesn't come into it as some people don't have the vote. Nice try though. In percentage terms anything less than 0.1% could be called as close. Less than 0.05% would be very close. Anything higher is mere delusion on that part of the losing side. I'm amazed the 'Remain' side aren't asking for a recount as another way of trying to stall things.

In the words of your spirit animal...

“In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way."

	Quote:	Clocker
	No. Almost 4% of the votes actually. The population doesn't come into it as some people don't have the vote. Nice try though. In percentage terms anything less than 0.1% could be called as close. Less than 0.05% would be very close. Anything higher is mere delusion on that part of the losing side.

If you say so.

4% is still an enormous amount of people...

[Clocker]

	Quote:
	In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way

It is unfinished business, the result still hasn't been implemented.

[marton]

	Quote:	Clocker
	No. Almost 4% of the votes actually. The population doesn't come into it as some people don't have the vote. Nice try though. In percentage terms anything less than 0.1% could be called as close. Less than 0.05% would be very close. Anything higher is mere delusion on that part of the losing side. I'm amazed the 'Remain' side aren't asking for a recount as another way of trying to stall things.

Farage calls for second Brexit referendum

Source

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	marton
	Farage calls for second Brexit referendum Source

	Quote:
	last updated: 11/01/2018

[John William]

	Quote:	Clocker
	It won't solve all problems and will undoubtedly create some, but that doesn't meant to say the result of the referendum should not be respected.

Unfortunately the last 3 years have proved that it's lost an awful lot of respectability, what with all
the Mayhem and other Parliamentary business being kicked down the road thanks to Brexit - that ends
up with putting that buffoon, Boris Johnson in No. 10

Don't think anyone in their right mind would have voted for a course of events that leads to that !!