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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21181  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The tragedy of it is that the UK will end up being played 'As the Big Suckers' in any such a trade deal
with Trump. As it's always been the case of 'America first' with Trump.
This is the bit that amazes me. The same people who are rambling on about "EUSSR" and how awful it is to be oppressed under the EU and its suffocating rules, and how the UK is getting a bad deal and generally losing out are in a fanboy-frenzy of excitement of jumping into bed with the US, which is currently in the grip of its worst administration in history.

Do they really think the US is going to roll out the red carpet and offer all sorts of trade deals which are BETTER than the one the UK currently enjoys as being part of a strong network of member states? Genuine question.
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  #21182  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:40
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@"pelvic floor muscles"
And I immediately started to do some.. thank you, Brexit.
  #21183  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

US-UK trade agreement.

Will the UK be obliged to withdraw from the Iran Nuclear agreement?
Will the UK be required to support US military operations around the world?
Will the UK be required to accept (without proper labelling), hormone injected beef, chlorine washed (unvaccinated) chickens, gmo products?
Waive all tax requirements on Trump golf courses?
Etc.
  #21184  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Do they really think the US is going to roll out the red carpet and offer all sorts of trade deals which are BETTER than the one the UK currently enjoys as being part of a strong network of member states? Genuine question.

Depends on the definition of "better". If better means less obstacles, then yes. If better means a protected inside market, then no.
  #21185  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

...with lashings of blind optimism and custard.
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  #21186  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Depends on the definition of "better". If better means less obstacles, then yes. If better means a protected inside market, then no.
This is a good point. the UK will lose for certain the power it had as part of a huge trading bloc, however it will gain in flexibility and agility. As we have all seen it takes years (7 for canada, about 8000 for south america) to agree a trade deal with the EU because everyone has to agree to it.

The UK will be able to move and adapt with greater agility when only it has to agree or negotiate with another entity or state.

So there are plusses and minuses both sides I would say.
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  #21187  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This is a good point. the UK will lose for certain the power it had as part of a huge trading bloc, however it will gain in flexibility and agility. As we have all seen it takes years (7 for canada, about 8000 for south america) to agree a trade deal with the EU because everyone has to agree to it.

The UK will be able to move and adapt with greater agility when only it has to agree or negotiate with another entity or state.

So there are plusses and minuses both sides I would say.
But that wasn't my point. The UK was ALREADY in the trading block of the EU, which already trades with the US and now the UK is choosing to leave.

My question was why people think it is better to go it alone and try to form trading links with the US (and the rest of the world) anew.

k_and_e mentioned some non-descript "obstacles" which seem to be present with the EU but not with the US but does that make the whole thing easier and therefore more profitable?
  #21188  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The tragedy of it is that the UK will end up being played 'As the Big Suckers' in any such a trade deal
with Trump. As it's always been the case of 'America first' with Trump.
There won't be a trade deal, so no need to worry. It will go the way of the Canada/Mexico deal, Trump doing the victory dance and the deal going unapproved by Congress.

Next summer most Irish politicians will be heading State side for the summer holidays, States and districts being coordinated by the Irish Embassy in Washington. And while there they'll be visiting the Irish centers and giving a few speeches supporting the local congressman or not as the case may be.
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  #21189  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But that wasn't my point. The UK was ALREADY in the trading block of the EU, which already trades with the US and now the UK is choosing to leave.

My question was why people think it is better to go it alone and try to form trading links with the US (and the rest of the world) anew.

k_and_e mentioned some non-descript "obstacles" which seem to be present with the EU but not with the US but does that make the whole thing easier and therefore more profitable?
I think it is the same point ? The idea is that outside the EU, as an independent single state, the UK can form trade relationships quickly and without the difficulty of having all member states agree.

So it steps out of the EU (losing existing agreements under them) but then forms its own ones under the independent banner of the UK only, not requiring such a long negotiation for them because of the simplicity of having just one country negotiating.

It might not work, but its the idea I believe.
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  #21190  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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k_and_e mentioned some non-descript "obstacles" which seem to be present with the EU but not with the US but does that make the whole thing easier and therefore more profitable?
obstacles between US and EU of course, not between UK and EU as UK is an EU member.
  #21191  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:45
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I think it is the same point ? The idea is that outside the EU, as an independent single state, the UK can form trade relationships quickly and without the difficulty of having all member states agree.

So it steps out of the EU (losing existing agreements under them) but then forms its own ones under the independent banner of the UK only, not requiring such a long negotiation for them because of the simplicity of having just one country negotiating.

It might not work, but its the idea I believe.
It may be able to conclude deals quicker, but there is no way on God's green earth that a country of 65m is getting as favourable terms as a bloc of 500m with any trading partner.
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  #21192  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:49
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obstacles between US and EU of course, not between UK and EU as UK is an EU member.
Yes, I am aware of the regions and nations involved but it was the "obstacles" bit of your statement which needed further clarification.
  #21193  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think it is the same point ? The idea is that outside the EU, as an independent single state, the UK can form trade relationships quickly and without the difficulty of having all member states agree.

So it steps out of the EU (losing existing agreements under them) but then forms its own ones under the independent banner of the UK only, not requiring such a long negotiation for them because of the simplicity of having just one country negotiating.

It might not work, but its the idea I believe.
Indeed, the other side is that as the UK is a much smaller market than the EU so third countries may not give priority to negotiating UK trade deals and may not offer such attractive terms as they offer the EU. I understand that the trade deals currently being pre-negotiated have already run into such less attractive terms.
  #21194  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Indeed, the other side is that as the UK is a much smaller market than the EU so third countries may not give priority to negotiating UK trade deals and may not offer such attractive terms as they offer the EU. I understand that the trade deals currently being pre-negotiated have already run into such less attractive terms.
Attractive terms for who?

What highly attractive trade deals with third countries have the EU negotiators landed lately that specifically benefit the UK?
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  #21195  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think it is the same point ? The idea is that outside the EU, as an independent single state, the UK can form trade relationships quickly and without the difficulty of having all member states agree.

So it steps out of the EU (losing existing agreements under them) but then forms its own ones under the independent banner of the UK only, not requiring such a long negotiation for them because of the simplicity of having just one country negotiating.

It might not work, but its the idea I believe.
I could be wrong but...I think that the EU countries can't negotiate a lot of individual deals with other countries.

So while the UK leaving means it can make deals with US, Canada, Vanuatu or whatever, it can't easily negotiate piecemeal deals with France, Germany, Poland, etc. because those countries are still bound to EU laws/trade deals.

I think?
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  #21196  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I could be wrong but...I think that the EU countries can't negotiate a lot of individual deals with other countries.

So while the UK leaving means it can make deals with US, Canada, Vanuatu or whatever, it can't easily negotiate piecemeal deals with France, Germany, Poland, etc. because those countries are still bound to EU laws/trade deals.

I think?
correct EU countries cannot do side deals, it all EU or nothing.
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  #21197  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, I am aware of the regions and nations involved but it was the "obstacles" bit of your statement which needed further clarification.

https://www.google.ch/search?source=...00&safe=strict
  #21198  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This is truly bizarre. The notion that if Germany or Ireland end up worse affected, then it's all worth it (or at least justified), despite whatever negative effects the UK suffers.

Beyond bonkers.
UK is not yet responsible for everyone else's debts, we don't own the other countries. Just like running a business, bankrupting your competitors never hurts.
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Old 13.08.2019, 16:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But that wasn't my point. The UK was ALREADY in the trading block of the EU, which already trades with the US and now the UK is choosing to leave.
:
Being a member of the EU is very restrictive, it's not 'free trade' it's hugely protected market, that has huge disadvantages, hence the sensible decision to leave.
  #21200  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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correct EU countries cannot do side deals, it all EU or nothing.
That is huge disadvantage from my POV
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