The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Germany also shrank by 0.1% in the 2nd quarter. https://www.ft.com/content/994a9ec4-...d-8e884d3ea203

That was a shock!

A recession is defined as two consecutive negative quarters so a global recession inches ever closer

Major negative factors are a global collapse in car sales, Trump's trade war and, of course, Brexit.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Same happens in companies all the time. Most important are leadership capabilities, for the rest a minister will have experts.

In a corporate setting most of the cabinet would have been kicked out by now for incompetence. Leadership qualities appear to be non-existent. In a company, the head of a department normally has some semblance of a connection to the subject and doesn't often chop and change to a completely different discipline.

Yes, I am sure someone knows someone else who moved from one department to another completely different department in a company, as is ALWAYS the case on EF , but I am talking generally. If you are head of Finance in a company, you don't often end up being moved to head of quality control for a few months then shunted over to HR for a stint.

I am also aware that it's different in politics but it just seems mental that ministers with no leadership qualities and no expertise are put into a role they know nothing about.

	Quote:
	That's always been a source of puzzlement to me: "Currently you are Minister for Education, and you should be knowledgeable, qualified and experienced enough to know what would be good for the nation's education, but now I'm going to have a cabinet reshuffle and you will be Minister for Health, so how's your knowledge of the entire NHS?"

This is what the civil service is for. The minister is just the figurehead that sits on top of that department. Think Jen in The IT Crowd

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is a really first class example of why being a smaller, more agile, independent trading nation has its advantages. As you say, if one of 27 countries isn't happy with any aspect of a trade negotiation, it gets vetoed.

You can pretend all you like, but a small country is always the junior partner in the deal and junior partners do not get to set the terms. In time the UK will get to understand that.

	Quote:
	As for the clause where, if I read that correctly, the EU has to give approval for a trade deal between Canada and the UK, im amazed. In any other line of business that would be way outside whats legally allowed.

There is nothing illegal about it, it’s part of the Canadian style deals the EU is doing at present and obviously the other countries think it is worth it. If both parties are going to allow the kind of trade set out under these agreements then they are not going to be happy if a third country gains access to the market via a back door. For instance if Irish farmers were to start importing UK beef via NI and re exporting to Japan via the agreement then Japan would rightly be upset.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	Yes, I am sure someone knows someone else who moved from one department to another completely different department in a company, as is ALWAYS the case on EF , but I am talking generally. If you are head of Finance in a company, you don't often end up being moved to head of quality control for a few months then shunted over to HR for a stint.

Well actually... all you need to do is look at the annual financial reports of the company’s and you can quickly see that many holdings financial positions have no qualification in the area...

There was once an Irish finance minister who was very unpopular with his colleagues and the civil service because he was actually qualified for the job! He was a senior member of the accounting profession and he had this crazy idea about not wasting money..... so they got shot of him by nominating him to the EU commission!

Unfortunately he was not very popular there either as the crazy ideas continued - he cut the number of financial advisors by 70% on the basis that since he was one they were no needed! And even worse he thought he was capable of making financial decisions without following the recommendations of his administration. There was a lot of opposition to him being reappointed.

I read somewhere that the only time US military spending fell in real terms was during the Eisenhower period. On one occasion he resisted pressure from the military to build new long range missiles on the basis that they could just move the current ones a little closer!

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Don't misrepresent me please. Re-read what I wrote, acknowledge your mistake, apologise if you like and engage with my actual statement. Nuance; proving an issue since 2016.

Your ability to wilfully misunderstand, misinterpret, introduce spite and ugliness into an objective discussion, and make everything personal knows no bounds.

Congratulations. You must be really proud of yourself.

Before you ask me to apologize for pointing out a gaping fault in your logic, why not you apologize for being wilfully manipulative, hateful and arguing in bad faith?

Or rather than apologizing, to use your own word from an earlier post ... confessing?

	Quote:	amogles
	Your ability to wilfully misunderstand, misinterpret and make everything personal knows no bounds. Congratulations. You must be really proud of yourself. Before you ask me to apologize for attaing a true fact, why not you apologize for being wilfully manipulative and arguing in bad faith.

A Brexiteer unwilling to admit or correct a mistake they made? Well I never. You can join Loz on the ignore list, adios.

Free Trade deal != Trade deal - please keep that in mind when dealing with the rest of the unfortunates who haven't discovered the ignore button yet.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	A Brexiteer unwilling to admit or correct a mistake they made?

There is a big difference beween correcting a mistake and acting out of spite because you are unable to counter an argument.

If that's your way of acknowledging you lost an argument, you need to work on your manners.

Do you act that way too when you loose a pub quiz, ay?

[amogles]

	Quote:
	A Brexiteer unwilling to admit or correct a mistake they made?

Here we go again.

If I were to write sweeping generalizations about "all remienbers" i would rightly have half the EF yapping at my heels.

Instead I try to take arguments at face value, and yes, I admit there are some points where Remainers have a valid argument.

Obviously you are not capable of arguing in a similarly magnanimous spirit.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is a really first class example of why being a smaller, more agile, independent trading nation has its advantages. As you say, if one of 27 countries isn't happy with any aspect of a trade negotiation, it gets vetoed. As for the clause where, if I read that correctly, the EU has to give approval for a trade deal between Canada and the UK, im amazed. In any other line of business that would be way outside whats legally allowed.

Unfortunately the mess the UK has made of implementing Brexit so far demonstrates it is not "a smaller, more agile, independent trading nation"!

A more accurate description would be "confused, elephantine and indecisive"?

[John William]

	Quote:
	A Brexiteer unwilling to admit or correct a mistake they made? Well I never. You can join Loz on the ignore list, adios. Free Trade deal != Trade deal - please keep that in mind when dealing with the rest of the unfortunates who haven't discovered the ignore button yet.

Steady on - I get my best laughs from the merry band of Brexiteers on this thread.

At moment we've got the absurd prediction that the EU is on the verge of collapse versus the
bookies favourite that the United Kingdom is about to fall apart from the fallout of a No Deal Brexit.

	Quote:	marton
	Unfortunately the mess the UK has made of implementing Brexit so far demonstrates it is not "a smaller, more agile, independent trading nation"! A more accurate description would be "confused, elephantine and indecisive"?

We can only be more agile if we have consistent positions and agreement on where the country should be going.

Sadly, the country (and by reflection its politicians, or have I got that the wrong way round?) has never been more divided, so believing we can all pull in one direction and secure premium deals for Britain is bordering on the delusional.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	John William
	At moment we've got the absurd prediction that the EU is on the verge of collapse versus the .

UK provides second biggest contribution, clearly Spain, Italy, Greece & Portugal can pick up the tab. Let us not forget about their unfunded pensions either.

[John William]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK provides second biggest contribution, clearly Spain, Italy, Greece & Portugal can pick up the tab. Let us not forget about their unfunded pensions either.

Don't worry were unlikely to forget that the Union Jack is likely to lose it's blue background.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	John William
	Don't worry were unlikely to forget that the Union Jack is likely to lose it's blue background.

Great, perhaps Wales will go too, huge savings for the rest of the country either way.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Great, perhaps Wales will go too, huge savings for the rest of the country either way.

The Little Englanders' sub-plot rumbles on...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...at-risk-pelosi

Uh oh.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	https://www.theguardian.com/politics...at-risk-pelosi Uh oh.

Yes indeed. It's really beginning to look like the threat of violence is going to win the day when it comes to being required to stay in the EU.

	Quote:
	https://www.theguardian.com/politics...at-risk-pelosi Uh oh.

Absolutely. The noise and hullabaloo of a US deal is just for the UK domestic audience to show how strong Boris is.. all bluff. Power hungry, he needs to win that election at all costs. And no one is asking why John Bolton, Trump’s national security adviser, is talking about US deals and mini deals and not the US Trade representative.

Boris is as weak as May was. He just shouts louder.

[bowlie]

Apparently the excited kingdom is suffering from a shortage of cauliflower. Obviously a sneaky plot hatched by the European Parliament.