The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[dandi]

This is how a border crossing from Serbia to Hungary looks like

https://goo.gl/maps/zX9Qwdny4EWdTNEW8

Notice the queue of cars and trucks

[amogles]

	Quote:	dandi
	Where and how did you cross the border on the way from Serbia back to the EU?

Bought a train ticket, got on the train.

The train stopped at some booney place near the border. A pair of uniformed guards walked through the train but didn't do very much. Then they got off the train and had a smoke with their mates. Yes, on the station platform.

That was it.

[dandi]

	Quote:
	The discussion seems to be centering on how convenient it is to pop over borders within mainland Europe, either EU, non-EU, Schengen, etc., but isn't the issue with FMOP more to do with long term visits, work and residence? Whether they check your passport or dismantle your car to or from your hollies is neither here nor there (and we can all join in pissing competitions about how difficult or easy it was for us), but settling, working and residing in these countries is the wider issue here.

No, the issue is not the FMOP. The practical issue that is facing Britain with brexit is that free trade is out - and therefore borders have to be closed for trade. And this leads to serious inconvenience - see the kilometers of trucks queuing at the Serbian border post above. This (and much more) is what awaits Dover and Calais.

[dandi]

	Quote:	amogles
	Bought a train ticket, got on the train. The train stopped at some booney place near the border. A pair of uniformed guards walked through the train but didn't do very much. Then they got off the train and had a smoke with their mates. Yes, on the station platform. That was it.

Yes, pretty standard treatment at EU borders on trains from eastern europe for the last 30 years.

That being said, it was obvious to the border that you weren't carrying 20 tonnes of hormone beef or chlorinated chicken, or pallets of ewe's milk or toys from a chinese factory.

If you were to cross with a van or a truck you'd be in for quite a different treatment, which would more likely mean waiting for days at the border.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	dandi
	No, the issue is not the FMOP. The practical issue that is facing Britain with brexit is that free trade is out - and therefore borders have to be closed for trade. And this leads to serious inconvenience - see the kilometers of trucks queuing at the Serbian border post above. This (and much more) is what awaits Dover and Calais.

So back to where we were uptown around 1993/4, the first 20 years of EEC membership had customs borders.

	Quote:	dandi
	No, the issue is not the FMOP. The practical issue that is facing Britain with brexit is that free trade is out - and therefore borders have to be closed for trade. And this leads to serious inconvenience - see the kilometers of trucks queuing at the Serbian border post above. This (and much more) is what awaits Dover and Calais.

Well I was responding to the points where people were, as individuals, recounting either how easy or difficult it was to cross various borders which, I agree, is nothing to do with goods and trade, but nonetheless very relevant to Brexit when it comes to whether those individuals want to live, work or study across the EU and not just pop across for their romantic weekend in Paris, for example.

Daily Wail salivating over BoJo's MAGA, sorry, I mean MUKGA vid. Big on superlatives and rousing fluff; light on fact and, well... any kind of info.

Holy god...

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	So back to where we were uptown around 1993/4, the first 20 years of EEC membership had customs borders.

Back to 1993/4 when imports and exports were well under half of today's level; careful you do not get what you wish for!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	Back to 1993/4 when imports and exports were well under half of today's level; careful you do not get what you wish for!

Just over 100% inflation since then which would imply broadly unchanged then

[rainer_d]

Back then, people didn't order so much useless stuff on amazon or zalando just to throw away after a few uses (or right away in some cases).

Nor were there there such a significant number of returns.


Shops sold they less convenience food. Vertical range of manufacture was also deeper etc.




Boris should partner with Jack Monroe to teach people how to live frugally again ;-)


I've already got a working title: "Back to the basics, with Boris and Jack".

[Clocker]

	Quote:	rainer_d
	people didn't order so much useless stuff on amazon or zalando just to throw away

You may do this nowadays, but we certainly don't buy useless things or stuff just to throw away, on either of those two sites. All of the stuff we buy from those sites is stuff we need and then either gets consumed, used or worn.

	Quote:	Clocker
	You may do this nowadays, but we certainly don't buy useless things or stuff just to throw away, on either of those two sites. All of the stuff we buy from those sites is stuff we need and then either gets consumed, used or worn.

I think the general trend is for people to order a good % of stuff from food to furniture to clothing and electronics from online retailers (see all the reports of high street retailers closing down because of the loss of foot traffic).

Not sure a study of what individuals do is going to come up with anything reliable. I don't order much, either, but I know I am unusual.

[Reb77Br]

	Quote:
	Daily Wail salivating over BoJo's MAGA, sorry, I mean MUKGA vid. Big on superlatives and rousing fluff; light on fact and, well... any kind of info. Holy god...

"Tines" up and down the country.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	dandi
	No, the issue is not the FMOP. The practical issue that is facing Britain with brexit is that free trade is out - and therefore borders have to be closed for trade. And this leads to serious inconvenience - see the kilometers of trucks queuing at the Serbian border post above. This (and much more) is what awaits Dover and Calais.

So, the same as the borders here.

Tom

[Clocker]

	Quote:
	I think the general trend is for people to order a good % of stuff from food to furniture to clothing and electronics from online retailers (see all the reports of high street retailers closing down because of the loss of foot traffic).

We order online and have stuff delivered for convenience and also because we don't have a car. Ordering stuff online instead of buying in a physical high street store is just a different way of shopping. We are still contributing to the economy. High street stores need to diversify and/or adapt to the times.

[grumpygrapefruit]

Three and a half years after the Tory government announced a non binding referendum on leaving the EU and they are still no nearer knowing what to do with the Irish border. This sort of problem is exactly what should have been addressed before holding a referendum.

It is an absolute and complete embarrassing farce which has made the UK the laughing stock of the world.

[st2lemans]

Most stuff that I order online is hard to find NOS motorcycle and car bits, something that no brick and mortar shop is likely to carry (except maybe in Thailand).

Tom

	Quote:	Clocker
	We order online and have stuff delivered for convenience and also because we don't have a car. Ordering stuff online instead of buying in a physical high street store is just a different way of shopping. We are still contributing to the economy. High street stores need to diversify and/or adapt to the times.

Yes but I think the point was that consumerism now is very different to how it was in the 90s, and that now there is a trend for people to buy all sorts of shit they don't need online. I think FMF was trying to make some point that didn't factor that in.

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	So, the same as the borders here. Tom

Except that Switzerland has free trade agreements with all countries it shares borders with (ie the EU)

[dandi]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	So, the same as the borders here. Tom

Yes, more or less. But while at Dover this is just a massive inconvenience could be sorted eventually, in NI it has a whole different impact...