The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	So, the same as the borders here. Tom

Except we don’t have any border where people pretend the border does no exist and the people on one side is broken into two communities both pretending to live in completely different countries!

[baboon]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Just over 100% inflation since then which would imply broadly unchanged then

Nope. That would already be inflation adjusted. Quickly scanning the numbers, the increase in volume (not value) is something north of 150% since the early 90s.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Except we don’t have any border where people pretend the border does no exist and the people on one side is broken into two communities both pretending to live in completely different countries!

Plenty of people here on EF pretending to live in a completely different country from most Swiss people I know.

[marton]

Merkel 1: Boris 0

	Quote:
	German Chancellor Angela Merkel has challenged Britain's new Prime Minister Boris Johnson to come up with a new plan for Brexit in 30 days. Merkel told Johnson that he needed to come up with specific proposals on alternatives to the so-called Irish backstop after he doubled down on a push to remove it without providing any further details. Speaking at a joint news conference in Berlin on Wednesday evening Merkel said the "UK has to tell us what ideas it has" to solve the backstop issue, adding that "it is not the job of the chancellor" to find a solution. "We always said we would find a solution in the coming two years," Merkel said. "But possibly, you might find the solution in 30 days, why not? And then we would be a step forward,"

LOL!

[Clocker]

	Quote:	marton
	Merkel 1: Boris 0

Though Merkel's offer seems pretty pointless with France all but confirming it's the existing deal or no deal!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49427007

"Renegotiation of the terms currently proposed by the British is not an option that exists, and that has always been made clear by [EU] President Tusk."

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Though Merkel's offer seems pretty pointless with France all but confirming it's the existing deal or no deal! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49427007 "Renegotiation of the terms currently proposed by the British is not an option that exists, and that has always been made clear by [EU] President Tusk."

Macron will complain about everything, he is after all French, Merkel really runs Europe.

He has 30 days to come up with a backstop alternative, see off a leadership challenge, prepare for leaving without a deal and if he does get past the backstop, actually arrange a workable deal.

Its going to be quite a month for him.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Macron will complain about everything, he is after all French, Merkel really runs Europe. He has 30 days to come up with a backstop alternative, see off a leadership challenge, prepare for leaving without a deal and if he does get past the backstop, actually arrange a workable deal. Its going to be quite a month for him.

I'm sure if he's anything like the rest of us, he'll toss off the first 4 weeks then have a mad panic for the last 2 days getting stuff sorted out.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Mikers
	He has 30 days to come up with a backstop alternative, see off a leadership challenge, prepare for leaving without a deal and if he does get past the backstop, actually arrange a workable deal.

They always had that option, the problem is everything thing they dream up is something kind of border with checks somewhere, while the requirement is NO border.

On the other hand he is good at the fudge and the BREXITEERS aren’t that bring so he has wriggling room.

[Reb77Br]

A German scholar of Britain's role in international relations says that Boris Johnson and the UK media have misinterpreted his recent meeting with Angela Merkel.

"Just watched the Merkel & Johnson press conference in German. Let me assure you that UK press reports presenting this as some kind of turning point are completely overblown. There is no reason to hope for a breakthrough, but equally there is no reason to give up entirely.Thread1"

After all the excitement of the last few weeks, people seem to think that anything short of Merkel kicking Johnson out of the chancellery amounts to Germany putting its weight within the EU behind abolishing the backstop. That is nonsense. Politeness is not acquiescence.2

As for Merkel‘s statement that we may have to find a solution for the backstop impasse within 30days rather than 2years, this is merely an observation that time is of the essence if the object is to avoid No Deal. It does not mean that she just presented Johnson with a deadline.3"

etc.
https://twitter.com/HeleneBismarck/s...53328458620930

https://www.helenevonbismarck.com/

[dilip_gem]

Useful information: https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...k-brexit-e.pdf

[amogles]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Yes but I think the point was that consumerism now is very different to how it was in the 90s, and that now there is a trend for people to buy all sorts of shit they don't need online.

Not much has changed then. There was a time people went into a shop and came out with all sorts of shit they didn't need. Shop displays were designed specifically to guide you towards buying shit you didn't need.

Remember the days you could go into IKEA to get a light bulb and you spent two hours inside and came out with a shopping cart full of cr@p, which in hindsight you could have got for half the price elsewhere. Nowadays I go to the Distrelec website for the same light bulb but typically spend 60 seconds and end up buying three light bulbs instead of one because there is a special offer. But at least I use the other two eventually.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	amogles
	Not much has changed then. There was a time people went into a shop and came out with all sorts of shit they didn't need. Shop displays were designed specifically to guide you towards buying shit you didn't need. Remember the days you could go into IKEA to get a light bulb and you spent two hours inside and came out with a shopping cart full of cr@p. Nowadays I do to Distrelec for the same but typically spend 60 seconds, end up buying three light bulbs instead of one because there is a special offer. But at least I use the other two eventually.

Don't know about you but where I lived in England you had to drive an hour to IKEA and here it's about the same travel time to the nearest one to us.

My laptop, on the other hand, is just there on the dining room table ready for my credit card 24/7 (if I were that way inclined).

Online binge shopping nowadays cannot be compared to a trolley dash around IKEA 25 years ago for a couple of extra lightbulbs and a chopping board.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	My laptop, on the other hand, is just there on the dining room table ready for my credit card 24/7 (if I were that way inclined). Online binge shopping nowadays cannot be compared to a trolley dash around IKEA 25 years ago for a couple of extra lightbulbs and a chopping board.

It has the opposite effect on me. Being able to see and touch and try out stuff is what makes me want to have it. Pictures of stuff are boring and mostly make me hesitant as I can't properly judge what the quality and feel are like.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	amogles
	It has the opposite effect on me. Being able to see and touch and try out stuff is what makes me want to have it. Pictures of stuff are boring and mostly make me hesitant as I can't properly judge what the quality and feel are like.

Yes, that's fine but that's just YOU, isn't it? The general trend would suggest that there are significant numbers ordering enough stuff off the internet to make an easily identifiable trend.

To simplify with an example - I'm not a huge fan of KFC but it doesn't mean it will go out of business because little old me doesn't buy food there.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Don't know about you but where I lived in England you had to drive an hour to IKEA

I think I was nearly 20 before I'd even heard of Ikea and even then had to ask what it was. I remember other stores like MFI and Texas, both now defunct.
Shopping habits increased also once places started opening every Sunday in the UK for example.

[bowlie]

I am absolutely convinced that the other member states would love to sit down and review a proposal from the Excited Kingdom on how to get out of this mess.

They have been waiting a very long time for such a proposal, and they are still waiting.

Even if they finally get a proposal on Halloween Eve, they will consider it.

But they do need to have a proposal to consider.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Shopping habits increased also once places started opening every Sunday in the UK for example.

Sunday shopping is brilliant. Such a boon.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	bowlie
	I am absolutely convinced that the other member states would love to sit down and review a proposal from the Excited Kingdom on how to get out of this mess. They have been waiting a very long time for such a proposal, and they are still waiting. Even if they finally get a proposal on Halloween Eve, they will consider it. But they do need to have a proposal to consider.

Then it wouldn't be a no deal Brexit anymore. If they want to go for no-deal, they shouldn't come up with any proposal until 31st October.

[bowlie]

I think the sentiment in the UK these days is:

I don't give a sh*t, I just want this over.

So we will see a hard exit on 31 October.

[marton]

	Quote:	bowlie
	I am absolutely convinced that the other member states would love to sit down and review a proposal from the Excited Kingdom on how to get out of this mess. They have been waiting a very long time for such a proposal, and they are still waiting. Even if they finally get a proposal on Halloween Eve, they will consider it. But they do need to have a proposal to consider.

Maybe, I tend to believe Merkel was displaying Irony when she told Boris it would be great if he came up with a proposal in a few days [after all the 28 countries failed to find a better solution than the back stop after 3 years].