The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Blueangel]

Another chef and baker, Richard Bertinet, owner of a cookery school in the UK with 6 published books to his name, also received 'Limited Settled Status' yesterday.


https://twitter.com/RichardBertinet/...52471037071360

https://bertinetbakery.com/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...t-8053972.html

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Clocker
	No border plan = no border i.e. current situation stays in place, via no deal. Border stays open. It will be up to the EU if they want to force Ireland to close it from that side for customs purposes really. I can't see that happening on 1st November to be honest.

This bit of nonsense has being going on for too long now an objection at the WTO is what will require a border.

Or has UK no intention of doing any trade deals then, just accept tariff free imports from all over the world, is that the plan? Who do you think will lodge the first MFN claim then against the UK? Russia, Argentina someone else?

The surveys have been carried out, the CPO have been issues and the army corp of engineers will have three months according to the WTO rules, the rules BREXITEERS so much want to adapt.

[Reb77Br]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Another chef and baker, Richard Bertinet, owner of a cookery school in the UK with 6 published books to his name, also received 'Limited Settled Status' yesterday. Attachment 137553 https://twitter.com/RichardBertinet/...52471037071360 https://bertinetbakery.com/ https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...t-8053972.html

Was checking online to find a definition of "limited settled status" and found only one hit. But there are many for "limited leave to remain", including this:

Leave to remain – but no home to remain in after fees treble

"The cost of renewing an application for a resident with limited leave to remain has increased by 238% in five years – from £601 per person in 2014 to £2,033 in January 2019...Fees for a limited leave to remain application are applied per person rather than per household, and status must be renewed every 30 months – meaning that some families are paying tens of thousands of pounds every two and a half years to stay on track."



Wonder if there could be a financial motive in not granting people full settled status.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Another chef and baker, Richard Bertinet, owner of a cookery school in the UK with 6 published books to his name, also received 'Limited Settled Status' yesterday. Attachment 137553 https://twitter.com/RichardBertinet/...52471037071360 https://bertinetbakery.com/ https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...t-8053972.html

Why didn't he apply for British citizenship during these 31 years?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Why didn't he apply for British citizenship during these 31 years?

Because he didn't need to? I don't know but you can ask him on twitter.

I've said before here, one of my closest friends is a dual national and cannot surrender either nationality without losing property inheritance rights in either country (we're talking a good few £100k in each country). She's lived in the UK for 15yrs, is married to my best mate and they have 4 kids together, the eldest being 13yrs old.

Why should these honest, law abiding, tax paying (in the 2 cases I've posted) employers and their families be subjected to this awful uncertainty just because some people wanted to 'take back control of our borders...except the fiddly one in Ireland'?

[Clocker]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Why didn't he apply for British citizenship during these 31 years?

Because it is not compulsory and already he has a citizenship.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Why should these honest, law abiding, tax paying (in the 2 cases I've posted) employers and their families be subjected to this awful uncertainty just because some people wanted to 'take back control of our borders...except the fiddly one in Ireland'?

Simple really. Because instead of getting on and delivering Brexit and sorting out all of the consequences it entails, politicians have simply dithered and argued. They have not been and are still not doing their jobs properly.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Because he didn't need to? I don't know but you can ask him on twitter. I've said before here, one of my closest friends is a dual national and cannot surrender either nationality without losing property inheritance rights in either country (we're talking a good few £100k in each country). She's lived in the UK for 15yrs, is married to my best mate and they have 4 kids together, the eldest being 13yrs old. Why should these honest, law abiding, tax paying (in the 2 cases I've posted) employers and their families be subjected to this awful uncertainty just because some people wanted to 'take back control of our borders...except the fiddly one in Ireland'?

Because things can change. I'm on a c-permit here but this is also no guarantee that I can stay forever.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I'm on a c-permit here but this is also no guarantee that I can stay forever.

But then nobody lives forever.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Because he didn't need to? I don't know but you can ask him on twitter. I've said before here, one of my closest friends is a dual national and cannot surrender either nationality without losing property inheritance rights in either country (we're talking a good few £100k in each country). She's lived in the UK for 15yrs, is married to my best mate and they have 4 kids together, the eldest being 13yrs old. Why should these honest, law abiding, tax paying (in the 2 cases I've posted) employers and their families be subjected to this awful uncertainty just because some people wanted to 'take back control of our borders...except the fiddly one in Ireland'?

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Because things can change. I'm on a c-permit here but this is also no guarantee that I can stay forever.

Exactly. Nearly every country in Europe requires foreigners wishing to live in their countries to register and get some sort of permit/permission to stay. Why should the UK be any different? Short of getting citizenship in a country, nothing guarantees you can stay there no matter how long you've lived there.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Why should the UK be any different?

Why shouldn't it? The UK has a different legal system.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Why shouldn't it? The UK has a different legal system.

Because if it had introduced such a system when it joined the EU then there wouldn't be this uncertainty now.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Because if it had introduced such a system when it joined the EU then there wouldn't be this uncertainty now.

Why should it introduce it if the EU doesn't require that?!

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Because instead of getting on and delivering Brexit and sorting out all of the consequences it entails, politicians have simply dithered and argued. They have not been and are still not doing their jobs properly.

Politicians are there to represent their constituents nothing more and it is up to the constituents alone to decide if they are doing the job properly. At the end of the date the voters failed to give a mandate to any party to carry out a BREXIT of any flavor. If the government did not have to rely on the DUP, more than likely the WA would have been approved and they’d be well into trade negotiations by now.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Why shouldn't it? The UK has a different legal system.

So what, there is nothing in UK law to prevent it and with a sovereign parliament the is no obstacle.

The Irish Government under the same legal system did with ‘Passport Cards’ and ‘Social Security Cards’.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So what, there is nothing in UK law to prevent it and with a sovereign parliament the is no obstacle.

Evidently it was not desired/felt necessary though. And since the EU didn't require it to be, it hasn't been introduced union-wide.

[bowlie]

Well hindsight is the best sight. They didn’t and they will now have a real challenge determining who is a legal resident. I suspect some British Citizens will have a hard time proving the are actually British.

Just wait for the daily fail et al to sell another billion web page hits on this discussion. A bit Ironic as the DM isn’t British itself.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Evidently it was not desired/felt necessary though. And since the EU didn't require it to be, it hasn't been introduced union-wide.

I think you need to read this...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1I128E

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1I128E

Interesting read, but doesn't resolve the issue.

[Dinivan]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Exactly. Nearly every country in Europe requires foreigners wishing to live in their countries to register and get some sort of permit/permission to stay. Why should the UK be any different? Short of getting citizenship in a country, nothing guarantees you can stay there no matter how long you've lived there.

As an EU citizen, I have the right to move and live in Switzerland. The permit is nothing more than a requirement to register with the local council so that they know my whereabouts, because they can't deny the granting of that permit. Unless you don't have the financial means to support yourself, in which case an EU national can only spend a maximum of 3 months looking for a job. This, I must add, is a condition that all member states can enforce, but successive UK governments have chosen to ignore it.

The UK does not grant a 'permit', but it does require any EU national to register and obtain a national insurance number prior to be allowed to accept an employment position. In essence, it is the same thing.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dinivan
	As an EU citizen, I have the right to move and live in Switzerland. The permit is nothing more than a requirement to register with the local council so that they know my whereabouts, because they can't deny the granting of that permit.

You might want to read the rules, you’re rights are dependent on you having a viable earned income in Switzerland either salaried or self employed or alternatively you are retired and have sufficient funds from unearned sources such as state pension and investment income.

In all other circumstances the same rules apply as to an third country national.

And yes a permit can be denied for economic grounds, criminality, security reasons, public order etc..

Remember EU citizens get L permits in cases where they can’t show long term economic viability as well.

	Quote:	Dinivan
	The UK does not grant a 'permit', but it does require any EU national to register and obtain a national insurance number prior to be allowed to accept an employment position. In essence, it is the same thing.

It is not the same think because it cannot be used as evidence of resistance which is what people need right now to make their claim. And I have a UK NI number even though I have never lived in the UK, I just got it at one time when thought I might need it. It is not terribly difficult to get one legally.