The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	In the video half-way down the page here (Boris Johnson asks Queen to suspend Parliament) Nicola Sturgeon says that the Queen is in a difficult position, but that it's not her role to stop this, rather the role of Parliament, which she says needs to act quickly now.

And this exposes the next big hole in the so called British democracy - there is actually no one with responsibility for defending the constitution. In the other 27 states that role is covered either by constitutional courts and or the president.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And this exposes the next big hole in the so called British democracy - there is actually no one with responsibility for defending the constitution. In the other 27 states that role is covered either by constitutional courts and or the president.

The Netherlands doesn't have a constitutional court either - which indeed is a big hole.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	You may not have said it explicitly but you have certainly inferred it many many times.

Nonsense. Since when does voting for Brexit mean hating the UK? If anything it's the opposite and the majority of people voted the way I did - for that very reason!

	Quote:	Clocker
	If anything it's the opposite and the majority of people voted the way I did - for that very reason!

And your evidence for this bold claim? Thought not. Nonsense indeed.

[Clocker]

	Quote:
	Nonsense indeed.

The nonsense is what the UK is hopefully leaving behind! But keep on re-moaning! So far it has caused significant delay, twice in fact, so you might succeed in getting another short one just to spin out the sheer misery of being trapped in the EU even longer!

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	So what would it take for remainers to accept leaving?

A clear majority in a sovereign parliament would be a start.....

So far we've had:

- An advisory referendum, held up by dubious claims
- An GE result that was subverted by the Tory party buying votes
- A PM who tried to subvert parliament by using the Queen's prerogative to invoke A50
- A Supreme Court decision recognising the rights of Parliament to invoke A50, being ridiculed and the judges and complainants being called traitors and worse for defending the constitutional position of parliament
- An another PM who has decided that his government is not accountable to parliament

Now all that remains is for "the defender of the faith" to decide that she has no role to play in defending the so called "sovereign parliament" and the farce is complete.

This is not the kind of behaviour we expect from a first world country, more like a third world dictatorship.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	A clear majority in a sovereign parliament would be a start..... So far we've had: - An advisory referendum, held up by dubious claims - An GE result that was subverted by the Tory party buying votes - A PM who tried to subvert parliament by using the Queen's prerogative to invoke A50 - A Supreme Court decision recognising the rights of Parliament to invoke A50, being ridiculed and the judges and complainants being called traitors and worse for defending the constitutional position of parliament - An another PM who has decided that his government is not accountable to parliament Now all that remains is for "the defender of the faith" to decide that she has no role to play in defending the so called "sovereign parliament" and the farce is complete. This is not the kind of behaviour we expect from a first world country, more like a third world dictatorship.

When you break it down like that, it's pretty stark. Jesus, what a mess.

[bowlie]

So what are Elizabeth’s options here? Obviously she can accede to the PM’s request but, constitutionally what else?

Can she reject the request? Can she decide not to respond? Can she invite other party leaders to attempt to secure a majority in parliament? Can she dissolve parliament and force a snap election?

How she acts will be her legacy.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	bowlie
	So what are Elisabeth’s options here? Obviously she can accede to the PM’s request but, constitutionally what else? Can she reject the request? Can she decide not to respond? Can she invite other party leaders to attempt to secure a majority in parliament? Can she dissolve parliament and force a snap election? How she acts will be her legacy.

She will accept the request apparently. It has already been said that it is highly unlikely that she won't as otherwise she will be going against the people.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	The Netherlands doesn't have a constitutional court either - which indeed is a big hole.

True, but a quick scan, shows that they have actually got a written constitution with a clear division of powers which makes it impossible for a government to simple dissolve parliament when it does not like the outcome.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	simple dissolve parliament when it does not like the outcome.

Isn't that what the remoaners are trying to do though? Not implement the result of the referendum because they don't like the outcome?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	bowlie
	So what are Elisabeth’s options here? Obviously she can accede to the PM’s request but, constitutionally what else?

You are talking about a country that has no written constitution.... in reality it is based on tradition and whatever the government of the day decides!

So when was the last time a monarch decided to ignore the request of "her" Prime Minster...

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Isn't that what the remoaners are trying to do though? Not implement the result of the referendum because they don't like the outcome?

Clocker, could you dispense with the playground insults? Obviously you have your opinions but that doesn’t mean you have a right to insult people who don’t agree with you.

	Quote:	Clocker
	Isn't that what the remoaners are trying to do though? Not implement the result of the referendum because they don't like the outcome?

I would say they are trying to mitigate the damage of a foolhardy no-deal Brexit which is in nobody's interests, bar the disaster capitalists.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Clocker, could you dispense with the playground insults? Obviously you have your opinions but that doesn’t mean you have a right to insult people who don’t agree with you.

Not an insult and I think you'll find that most of the insults have been directed at me (and others of similar opinions at times) on the forum.
Nevertheless, message received.

	Quote:
	I would say they are trying to mitigate the damage of a foolhardy no-deal Brexit which is in nobody's interests, bar the disaster capitalists.

But only in their opinion.

	Quote:	Clocker
	Isn't that what the remoaners are trying to do though? Not implement the result of the referendum because they don't like the outcome?

I think the whole affair is now a little bigger than the "remoaner" vs Brexiter skirmish playing out in the tabloids.

It's an unprecedented over-step of power by an unelected PM leading a government with a scrape of a majority, refusing to listen to anyone not banging the Brexit drum.

I'm not sure there are significant numbers of people even who voted leave that have much appetite for the utter car crash carrying on in parliament.

	Quote:	Clocker
	But only in their opinion.

It's a bit more than opinion. Many reports have been rolled out with varying scenarios by people who are in a position to give qualified information.

Brexit so far hasn't come up with anything vaguely resembling post-Brexit scenarios apart from idiotic stuff like "you'll still get your insulin and drinking water".

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Isn't that what the remoaners are trying to do though? Not implement the result of the referendum because they don't like the outcome?

First of all MPs are their to represent their constituents, after the advisory referendum the people were given a chance to elect a parliament to carry out their decision and they did.

The MPs in a sovereign parliament are fully entitled to act as they see fit and if you don't like that then you hold them to account at the next GE, that is how a parliamentary democracy works.

So the UK needs to decide, does it have a parliamentary democracy or not.

It is no longer about BREXIT, it about the very fundamental question, who rules UK? Where is the point of electing members to represent you in a sovereign parliament, if the government can then turn around and do what every it likes? UK constitutional law is all about precedent, if Boris can close parliament, then so can any future PM when he runs into trouble. "Sorry your Majesty, I'm having a little problem with the parliament, think I close it down for a while"... you really want your country run on that kind of nonsense?

	Quote:	Clocker
	Not an insult and I think you'll find that most of the insults have been directed at me (and others of similar opinions at times) on the forum. Nevertheless, message received. But only in their opinion.

Well, opinion based on facts and the majority of experts' opinions, yes.

I hate to break it to you, but Brexit being beneficial is only your opinion too.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Clocker
	Isn't that what the remoaners are trying to do though? Not implement the result of the referendum because they don't like the outcome?

Our elected MPs are duty bound to not pursue any course of action which would unnecessarily damage and/or have a negative impact upon the people, economy and security of the nation. The way to do that is through intense scrutiny of all proposed actions and legislations, and correctly implementation of the law surrounding such issues.

That is how a sovereign democracy is supposed to operate. If you take exception to any part of the process holding all proceedings following on from the referendum result to account, what the hell did you vote for? If you interpret todays response from various MPs and QCs as hostile, I would kindly submit that you never understood how the British Parliamentary system and British law operate.

[Clocker]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	you really want your country run on that kind of nonsense?

Yes. Because it is necessary, not nonsense. It is only nonsense in your opinion.

	Quote:
	Brexit being beneficial is only your opinion too.

And the opinion of the majority.

Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Our elected MPs are duty bound to not pursue any course of action which would unnecessarily damage and/or have a negative impact upon the people, economy and security of the nation. The way to do that is through intense scrutiny of all proposed actions and legislations, and correctly implementation of the law surrounding such issues. That is how a sovereign democracy is supposed to operate. If you take exception to any part of the process holding all proceedings following on from the referendum result to account, what the hell did you vote for? If you interpret todays response from various MPs and QCs as hostile, I would kindly submit that you never understood how the British Parliamentary system and British law operate.

Tired of this now.