The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Here is the threat: EU Parliament: No deal for a new EU-UK relationship before Brexit activation

I think it is pretty telling that the EU are seriously worried about other countries leaving.

	Quote:	Odile
	What did you expect? And have you ever bothered to read article 50? This is not just affecting the UK, but the rest of Europe and beyond- no wonder they don't want the uncertainty to fester.

Don't care. The UK has f'ed up and need to make the best of a bad situation. Article 50 shouldn't be invoked until a new PM via a general election is in place.

[marton]

	Quote:	CathHarmony
	So whos telling statistics porkies about immigration. the dont worry about immigration, dont believe what your experience or eyes are telling you about it guys or the migrant watch, house of lords guys. is that net tax gain all it appears to be? to some people 5BN GBP seems like a lot of money, its not to me Bear in mind house prices to incomes were at an average multiple of 8.8 times income in 2014, you can only imagine what it is now. So the most basic need, even before food, 'shelter', is out of the reach of most people. what is everyone expecting turn the uk into hong kong, start paving it over and give up on any quality of life?

From the first link "UK gains £20bn from European migrants, UCL economists reveal"

From the second link "the presumption of even a small fiscal benefit has been comprehensively overturned by a UCL study published in 2014 which found the fiscal impact of migrants in the UK between 1995 and 2011 was in fact a net cost of between £115 and £160 billion"

Does not seem possible to conclude who is telling "porkies" from this evidence

[marton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Here is the threat: EU Parliament: No deal for a new EU-UK relationship before Brexit activation

That is not a threat; that is the start of the negotiation process.

	Quote:	porsch1909
	I think it is pretty telling that the EU are seriously worried about other countries leaving. Don't care. The UK has f'ed up and need to make the best of a bad situation. Article 50 shouldn't be invoked until a new PM via a general election is in place.

"a new PM via a general election" The PM is not selected via a general election; he is voted in by the MPs of the ruling party.

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	marton
	"a new PM via a general election" The PM is not selected via a general election; he is voted in by the MPs of the ruling party.

I know. But the best way forward is to have a new PM selected after a general election who has their own mandate.

I'm not keen on another Gordon Brown situation.

	Quote:	Odile
	What did you expect? And have you ever bothered to read article 50? This is not just affecting the UK, but the rest of Europe and beyond- no wonder they don't want the uncertainty to fester.

I expect reform. What are you expecting?

The only thing that is going to have a negative affect on the future of the EU is the lack of reform, the growing democratic deficit and the continued secret EU trilogues negotiations. Many Europeans are not happy, many are just *uninformed*.

Merkel and Hollande have both called for reform. They know full well what is going to happen if Brussels digs its heels in over Brexit.

[Odile]

Ah yes, the EU will have to reform- that is clear.

But what will that have to do with the UK? The UK won't be part of the reforms- article 50 is clear on that.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	adrianlondon
	"Our jobs are not secure - we don't like this, so we'll vote to make sure we're all terminated and unemployed. That'll show 'em!". ??

No, that's not the interpretation. Their jobs were not secure, for certain. When it shut they asked for help and were largely ignored beyond a few 'why not retrain as an embedded c developer' useful tips from the government. So lots of them lost their livelihoods and the town lost its identity. So they vote leave because they are disillusioned.

What's really amazing is even now this has happened and it might be terrible for England what is most amazing on this debate is still the complete and utter blindness is that the fix for the government is to re engage with the poor white working class and instead he same 'look what you've done you stupid uneducated idiots' message carries on. More people wanted to leave than stay. Doesn't matter how much you shout at them, there are still more and they would still win democratically. They need to be remmotivated to live in a united Europe, not sneered at because they haven't made it to classes ABC1.

[Odile]

Well, when 1000s Google the EU after voting for Brexit- and say 'we never knew the facts, we just listened to the Sun (Murdoch), Farage and Bojo- had we known the facts we would have voted for remain! When others say they dont' mind EU immigration but they voted out to keep them Muslims out. When Cornwall votes for Brexit and then immediately panic about being worse off- etc, etc. The mind does boggle, no? And when stats show that the vast majority who voted out are over 65 and won't be really affected by the vote.

Can we really say the vote was rational and informed?

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Odile
	Can we really say the vote was rational and informed?

No vote is ever rational and informed. Democracy works based on great number belief that the ones who would change their mind are in the same number on both sides if all were perfectly informed so that the result is valid nonetheless.

[idefix]

	Quote:	Odile
	Well, when 1000s Google the EU after voting for Brexit- and say 'we never knew the facts, we just listened to the Sun (Murdoch), Farage and Bojo- had we known the facts we would have voted for remain! When others say they dont' mind EU immigration but they voted out to keep them Muslims out. When Cornwall votes for Brexit and then immediately panic about being worse off- etc, etc. The mind does boggle, no? And when stats show that the vast majority who voted out are over 65 and won't be really affected by the vote. Can we really say the vote was rational and informed?

It was the same with the July 1932 Federal Election in Germany.

Gives it some 15-20 years and UK will be back on track.

I hear first thing to chop is the UK pensions abroad, they will need the money for domestic projects in the UK, as the EU is immediately stopping the subventions.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	idefix
	It was the same with the July 1932 Federal Election in Germany. Gives it some 15-20 years and UK will be back on track. I hear first thing to chop is the UK pensions abroad, they will need the money for domestic projects in the UK, as the EU is immediately stopping the subventions.

Wait Wait.... I thought the EU cost money?

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	idefix
	It was the same with the July 1932 Federal Election in Germany.

Not quite: Brexit got 51,9% whereas NSDAP got 37,3%.

[manwithnoname]

	Quote:	Odile
	Well, when 1000s Google the EU after voting for Brexit- and say 'we never knew the facts, we just listened to the Sun (Murdoch), Farage and Bojo- had we known the facts we would have voted for remain! When others say they dont' mind EU immigration but they voted out to keep them Muslims out. When Cornwall votes for Brexit and then immediately panic about being worse off- etc, etc. The mind does boggle, no? And when stats show that the vast majority who voted out are over 65 and won't be really affected by the vote. Can we really say the vote was rational and informed?

How does this work?

[MusicChick]

May the UK live in interesting times.

I edited Prachett's curse a little.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Odile
	Well, when 1000s Google the EU after voting for Brexit- and say 'we never knew the facts, we just listened to the Sun (Murdoch), Farage and Bojo- had we known the facts we would have voted for remain! When others say they dont' mind EU immigration but they voted out to keep them Muslims out. When Cornwall votes for Brexit and then immediately panic about being worse off- etc, etc. The mind does boggle, no? And when stats show that the vast majority who voted out are over 65 and won't be really affected by the vote. Can we really say the vote was rational and informed?

Can you say that about any vote?

	Quote:	Odile
	Ah yes, the EU will have to reform- that is clear. But what will that have to do with the UK? The UK won't be part of the reforms- article 50 is clear on that.

Seriously? Do you think all us out-voters want to see the EU fail? We voted for reform: positive change, improvements to allow for a flexible, accountable and transparent EU.

Schulz, Tusk and Juncker need to resign to allow for a new working democratic EU to take shape.

The UK and the EU will have a relationship, deals will be made - to think otherwise is plain nonsense.

It's already happening: Austria joins Germany & France and calls for reform. It's like the Eurovision song contest count

Ahem... the UK isn't out of the EU yet.

Parliament hasn't exercised its sovereignty yet...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-...-brexit-2016-6

[22 yards]

	Quote:
	Ahem... the UK isn't out of the EU yet. Parliament hasn't exercised its sovereignty yet... http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-...-brexit-2016-6

How many times have I mentioned that...?

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Seriously? Do you think all us out-voters want to see the EU fail? We voted for reform: positive change, improvements to allow for a flexible, accountable and transparent EU. Schulz, Tusk and Juncker need to resign to allow for a new working democratic EU to take shape. The UK and the EU will have a relationship, deals will be made - to think otherwise is plain nonsense. It's already happening: Austria joins Germany & France and calls for reform. It's like the Eurovision song contest count

Ummm, Britain voted to not participate in the EU. This means that you wanted and have absolutely no say in the EU's internal affairs.


You may be right about Schulz, Tusk, and Juncker, but that is no longer any of Britain's business.

[Phil_MCR]

I'm hoping other countries including NL and FR get the same chance to vote. Bring on Nexit and Fradieu!