The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Blueangel
	You believe wrong and this is an oft quoted thing that always gets my back up because Manchester and Liverpool, amongst other northern towns and cities such as Harrogate, Leeds, York and Newcastle, voted Remain. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028

Essentially, people who have met forrins voted remain, people who haven't voted leave.

But it's definitely nothing to do with racism or xenophobia. Pure coincidence. Yup, definitely.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	The UK is not part of Europe, it has an island culture which over rides everything and the EU cannot understand this, nor never will.

Right and Ireland is an island nation that is one of the most pro EU states in the union....

The UK has never had to actually face up to the loss of empire... the commonwealth, the 'special relationship' etc... have allowed them to avoid reality for sometime now and your post is just another version of the "we're special nonsense"

In the coming years the UK is going to have to adjust to it's place in the world and understand that relationships and working together is how the world works. They got a first taste of it from the EU, the US will deliver another taste... and so on until they get a leader that will deliver the truth to them... how long that takes, who knows.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Nice try, but nope. Hopefully a Leaver will be honest enough to answer this soon, we've only been waiting 3 years.

This kind of response is typical of why we will leave in chaos. No reason is going to be acceptable to you as to why a small but agile body can have advantages over bigger but slower ones.

It is the typical smirking, sneering sarcastic response that the people who want to leave don’t know what they are doing and it is exactly your type which will ultimately put people like nigel farage into government. Which will be a disaster:

[bowlie]

I see the chief whip has resigned. His job, not his seat. Pity had he resigned his seat the Conservative/DUP would be in the minority.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This kind of response is typical of why we will leave in chaos. No reason is going to be acceptable to you as to why a small but agile body can have advantages over bigger but slower ones. It is the typical smirking, sneering sarcastic response that the people who want to leave don’t know what they are doing and it is exactly your type which will ultimately put people like nigel farage into government. Which will be a disaster:

that's such a cop out, like every time anyone pointed out the disasters that would happen should we leave leavers screamed out 'project fear, project fear' well they aint shouting that any more are they???

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Right and Ireland is an island nation that is one of the most pro EU states in the union.... The UK has never had to actually face up to the loss of empire... the commonwealth, the 'special relationship' etc... have allowed them to avoid reality for sometime now and your post is just another version of the "we're special nonsense" In the coming years the UK is going to have to adjust to it's place in the world and understand that relationships and working together is how the world works. They got a first taste of it from the EU, the US will deliver another taste... and so on until they get a leader that will deliver the truth to them... how long that takes, who knows.

Fully agree with first paragraph, they have also sucked the most out of the EU, never had any allusions about their place or prestige in the world.


Fully agree with the second paragraph too, i never said, nor implied i agree in anyway with the "we're special nonsense"


The UK cannot adapt because of the second paragraph that takes precedence over everything else. Until thy understand and accept they are, as Putin said, a small inconsequential island, the UK will not change. Again i disagree with Putin on the inconsequential bit, i think the UK has plenty to add to the international scene, just not as much as they like to think.

	Quote:	Mikers
	This kind of response is typical of why we will leave in chaos. No reason is going to be acceptable to you as to why a small but agile body can have advantages over bigger but slower ones. It is the typical smirking, sneering sarcastic response that the people who want to leave don’t know what they are doing and it is exactly your type which will ultimately put people like nigel farage into government. Which will be a disaster:

From my own perspective, even at the time of the campaigning, there was no piece of information that struck a chord with me personally which justified leaving.

The reasons were sketchy, the default position of the leave campaigners was first to deflect probing questions and then get shouty, but still no tangible facts came forth.

OK, so you start to delve into the EU and its nuts and bolts and try to find the reasons there. Scout about on forums and follow links on social media. Still nothing. Even the famed millions, nay BILLIONS of pounds with NO return didn't stack up when you looked at it properly.

Had a look on Leave supporting websites and try to find some well thought out reasons there. Still nothing - just vague foggy opinions.

On balance, the Remain campaign was equally woolly and impotent BUT as someone who has benefitted from the EU and seen the initiatives on many aspects of UK life, remaining seemed like the sensible option.

The main problems that were affecting the UK at the time were all home grown; education, health service, declining police numbers. None of that could be blamed on the EU, so I couldn't even say "well, they've f00ked the NHS/schools/police so I can see the reasons for voting Leave!" Still nothing.

[amogles]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	that's such a cop out, like every time anyone pointed out the disasters that would happen should we leave leavers screamed out 'project fear, project fear' well they aint shouting that any more are they???

Why then is it that every time somebody tries to answer the question they get shouted down and mocked and nitpicked rather than you trying to understand what they're trying to say, even if you don't agree.

Has it ever occurred to you that there may be some valid substance to what others are saying, even if you don't share that viewpoint and even if you have reason to think they are mistaken.

Could it, maybe, be that you don't actually want to know the answer to your own question. Maybe you are just seeking confirmation that everybody who disagrees with you is an idiot who just falls for waysist jingolism and otherwise has no clue what's going on? So even if it takes a special type of blinkers, you get to see only what you want to see and to hear what you want to hear.

[bigblue2]

See my previous posts, I don't give a toss one way or another if the UK leaves or stays, from a totally selfish point of view leave suits me as the impending shit storm will make the UK nice and cheap.

So I'm all ears, well, eyes, explain away.

	Quote:
	From my own perspective, even at the time of the campaigning, there was no piece of information that struck a chord with me personally which justified leaving. The reasons were sketchy, the default position of the leave campaigners was first to deflect probing questions and then get shouty, but still no tangible facts came forth. OK, so you start to delve into the EU and its nuts and bolts and try to find the reasons there. Scout about on forums and follow links on social media. Still nothing. Even the famed millions, nay BILLIONS of pounds with NO return didn't stack up when you looked at it properly. Had a look on Leave supporting websites and try to find some well thought out reasons there. Still nothing - just vague foggy opinions. On balance, the Remain campaign was equally woolly and impotent BUT as someone who has benefitted from the EU and seen the initiatives on many aspects of UK life, remaining seemed like the sensible option. The main problems that were affecting the UK at the time were all home grown; education, health service, declining police numbers. None of that could be blamed on the EU, so I couldn't even say "well, they've f00ked the NHS/schools/police so I can see the reasons for voting Leave!" Still nothing.

The remainers lost quite simply as they had nothing positive in their campaign, just negativity about what would happen if we left !


It was negativity from start to finish with nothing extolling the benefits of staying in the UK, the leavers were saying all sorts of porky-pies about what the benefits of leaving were , they ran a positive campaign which will always win in times of doubt.


People are positive rather than negative.

[amogles]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	So I'm all ears, well, eyes, explain away.

It's called the scroll function. I think everything has been said and explained at least 10 times already. We can only go over the arguments. Only you can open your mind.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	that's such a cop out, like every time anyone pointed out the disasters that would happen should we leave leavers screamed out 'project fear, project fear' well they aint shouting that any more are they???

No because it's now called Operation Yellowhammer

	Quote:	amogles
	Why then is it that every time somebody tries to answer the question they get shouted down and mocked and nitpicked rather than you trying to understand what they're trying to say, even if you don't agree.

But they don't answer the question. That's exactly the issue. They screech about scare-mongering and project fear. Why?

Why can't they just say (or screech if they feel more comfortable) "You're wrong and here are a bunch of researched and backed up reasons why you're wrong".

None of the Leave side has come up with a range of scenarios of what life will be like post Brexit. EDIT - apart from the apocalyptic Yellowhammer which BA just reminded me of.

Critics have posted dozens of reports from minimal impact to life-changing shifts to all aspects of life. Some are wild but some make sense and could quite conceivably happen, given the background information they provide.

Do YOU (or any other Leave supporters) know of any equivalent published scenarios showing a positive outcome? Do link it to this thread if you do.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	amogles
	Why then is it that every time somebody tries to answer the question they get shouted down and mocked and nitpicked rather than you trying to understand what they're trying to say, even if you don't agree.

That might be applicable if he had actually answered the question, but he didn’t.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	amogles
	It's called the scroll function. I think everything has been said and explained at least 10 times already. We can only go over the arguments. Only you can open your mind.

good argument

Well done for proving my point, all anger and shouting, no actual reason

[Mikers]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	that's such a cop out, like every time anyone pointed out the disasters that would happen should we leave leavers screamed out 'project fear, project fear' well they aint shouting that any more are they???

Ok. Ive already pointed out in this thread that there are advantages to being small as well as many for being big, but if you want an explicitly advantage of being an independent trading entity as opposed to a group:

An advantage of leaving the EU is we will be able to independently sign trade deals without needing the consensus of the other countries in the trading bloc, allowing us to negotiate on simpler, swifter terms.

[Massa]

	Quote:	bowlie
	What stops the EU from unilaterally extending the date, by the same number of days, to allow the new Parliament, to act.

Apologies if I missed the response - the thread is evolving too quickly In answer to the question posed I read that only the member state can request an extension. However, the purpose of the extension should be to remain in the EU – not just to buy time. Hope that helps.

[justpassingby]

	Quote:
	The UK never really wanted to be in the EU, when they joined in 1973 they still had a little power and prestige left over from WWII and the days of the Empire and always thought they were a cut above the rest; you could argue this is still the case. The UK always wanted special clauses and opt outs to almost all the treaties, they negotiated a special reduction on what they pay into the EU, they have never really been a team player and the EU is about team playing. If you join a club, you try to abide by it's rules, the UK never would, nor never will fully accept rules and regulations made by outside people so unfortunately the EU will never work for the UK in they way they want or think it should work for them, so there will be a continual problem of opting out and blocking various policies that the EU wish to proceed with. The UK has some difficultly in accepting the major roles played by Germany and France in the EU who seem to make most of the important decisions, size and colour of banana's aside. In my opinion, the UK will be initially worse off outside the EU but it will suit their unique personality much better and in the long run, it is probably the best thing to do. The UK is not part of Europe, it has an island culture which over rides everything and the EU cannot understand this, nor never will. It can be compared to our everyday life in the simile that we either abide by the rules in place or we get fined and sent to jail. Jail is not for ever, we eventually will get out and hopefully as a better entity.

Here is a good reason why. You chose to ignore it. Your choice but don’t go on about their being no reasons to leave because this explains it quite well.

To help you scroll, it’s on the previous page.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Ok. Ive already pointed out in this thread that there are advantages to being small as well as many for being big, but if you want an explicitly advantage of being an independent trading entity as opposed to a group: An advantage of leaving the EU is we will be able to independently sign trade deals without needing the consensus of the other countries in the trading bloc, allowing us to negotiate on simpler, swifter terms.

but on the flip side you lose you biggest trading partner

	Quote:	Mikers
	Ok. Ive already pointed out in this thread that there are advantages to being small as well as many for being big, but if you want an explicitly advantage of being an independent trading entity as opposed to a group: An advantage of leaving the EU is we will be able to independently sign trade deals without needing the consensus of the other countries in the trading bloc, allowing us to negotiate on simpler, swifter terms.

Pure conjecture.

There are already a lot of deals the EU have that will take an age to replicate and be on less favorable terms.

So this still isn't a benefit.