The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:
	How many times have I mentioned that...?

Yeah, but people are less likely to scroll past my posts.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Ummm, Britain voted to not participate in the EU. This means that you wanted and have absolutely no say in the EU's internal affairs. You may be right about Schulz, Tusk, and Juncker, but that is no longer any of Britain's business.

Not quite. We don't want to be bound into the direction the EU was going. If we had a strong say in EU affairs, then it wouldn't be going in the wrong direction! 😉

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Seriously? Do you think all us out-voters want to see the EU fail? We voted for reform: positive change, improvements to allow for a flexible, accountable and transparent EU.

No you voted OUT - the EU will reform, but the UK will not be part of this- at least that was never part of the vote. Article 50 makes it clear that negotiations with a country voting OUT is not possible.

So, what would happen in the UK, do you believe, if the government refused to implement the vote?

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	It's already happening: Austria joins Germany & France and calls for reform.

Nobody in France is calling for the reforms the UK dreamt of. It is totally unfrench to want to reduce the EU to nothing more than a single market for business and cash flow speculation.

To France and Germany, Europe is about politics. For the UK, it's just business. It was a miracle the UK got in in the first place, and a second miracle that it lasted so long. Germany wanted the UK in order to feel less lonely when talking balanced state budget and debt reduction, and France wanted a european army starting with unifying the british and the french one.

Both France and Germany got a clear NO from the UK from the people of the UK after getting it year after year from the politicians. I don't see how they can be sad for themselves, they are sad for Europe as a political entity. This concept is absent of the English language south of the Hadrian wall, Brexit is the most honest event in the EU since German reunification. Good or bad news is another question but it's honest. Thanks for that.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	Not quite. We don't want to be bound into the direction the EU was going. If we had a strong say in EU affairs, then it wouldn't be going in the wrong direction! 😉

Evaluate the following sentence:


"I want a divorce, but I insist on vetting your future partnerships, clothing choices, vacation destinations and financial decisions."


Additional booklets are available, calculators are allowed. You have 15 minutes starting now.

[Phil_MCR]

Evaluate: want not the same as get or accept.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	I'm hoping other countries including NL and FR get the same chance to vote. Bring on Nexit and Fradieu!

Why? Why is that so important to you anymore? You've got what you wanted with this referendum.
In order to have that we'll also have to see extremist parties, such as national front in France, confiscate the whole debate re. EU or/and imposing a certain thin line and level to the other ones.
I can't see how the raise of nationalism across Europe will bring anything good. The ascension of right-wing, eurosceptic and/or extremist parties do not sound like fun unless your wish is to live in a very conflictual and tribal world. And unfortunately, we can go back there faster than we can believe now.
Be careful what you wish for..

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	Evaluate: want not the same as get or accept.

Phil,


Brexit was the "I want a divorce"


Claiming that the vote was to reform the EU was the rest.


('twas a cheap shop, but you get the point)


There have been a few times when I thought that Brexit was seen at least partially as a game of chicken with the EU to get them to back down.


They didn't, that is how chicken is played.


Brexit may well turn out to be a Godsend for the rest of the EU.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Why? Why is that so important to you anymore? You've got what you wanted with this referendum. In order to have that we'll also have to see extremist parties, such as national front in France, confiscate the whole debate re. EU. I can't see how the raise of nationalism across Europe will bring anything good. The ascension of right-wing, eurosceptic and/or extremist parties do not sound like fun unless your wish is to live in a very conflictual and tribal world. And unfortunately, we can go back there faster than we can believe now. Be careful what you wish for..

Because I want the destruction of the EU and Brexit was just the first step.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	Because I want the destruction of the EU and Brexit was just the first step.

lol

Sounds like a good joke but I bet you're not kidding now.

	Quote:
	Well, when 1000s Google the EU after voting for Brexit- and say 'we never knew the facts, we just listened to the Sun (Murdoch), Farage and Bojo- had we known the facts we would have voted for remain! When others say they dont' mind EU immigration but they voted out to keep them Muslims out. When Cornwall votes for Brexit and then immediately panic about being worse off- etc, etc. The mind does boggle, no? And when stats show that the vast majority who voted out are over 65 and won't be really affected by the vote. Can we really say the vote was rational and informed?

Yes of course we can. There's no new information, in what you refer to, since Thursday; all that's happened is that a few uncertain doubters, and the very many who rationalise that the vote to leave was "wrong", are now doing all they can to make themselves heard, as if by doing so they can reverse what's been done.

No, the mind does not boggle - just because you don't like the result doesn't make it wrong or in any way nonsensical.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:
	Yes of course we can. There's no new information, in what you refer to, since Thursday; all that's happened is that a few uncertain doubters, and the very many who rationalise that the vote to leave was "wrong", are now doing all they can to make themselves heard, a if by doing so they can reverse what's been done. No, the mind does not boggle - just because you don't like the result doesn't make it wrong or in any way nonsensical.

Is anyone else surprised that there haven't been calls for a recount?

[TobiasM]

I have been missing this thread as I am in UK or what will soon be little Engerlaand and Wales! the soon to be non Union of our own. The Brexiters are going to get what they wanted, or not as it seems many are already regretting their vote! All I can say is the f'ing numpties, you were already sovereign, you had border control and a great economy, now it's tits are further up then the brains of a Brexiter! The lies were transparent from the start, I am so pissed off, I have actually cut friendships over this. Europe might go south now, and a stable continent might fall into uncertainty and instability. Who said don't listen to the experts? Well that man is an arse! I half hope we go down in flames because we need a lesson in humility, I hope we don't because I have family and friends who need a strong UK to survive. This is the sad result of allowing the masses a right to democracy, that the masses are easily manipulated and are mostly ignorant is all to clear now.

rant over, I will steer clear of this thread now as it makes me irate,

hugs and kisses from little Engerlaand x

	Quote:
	No you voted OUT - the EU will reform, but the UK will not be part of this- at least that was never part of the vote. Article 50 makes it clear that negotiations with a country voting OUT is not possible. So, what would happen in the UK, do you believe, if the government refused to implement the vote?

I think there's an outside chance, but still a very real possibility, that a massively revised EU-like treaty might be put forward before clause 50 is invoked, and that Britain would be very much a part of it. In such a situation a new mandate from the people may well be needed, be it in the form of a General Election or another referendum after new terms have been negotiated.

If nothing changes from the EU side I can't see how the government could refuse to abide by the referendum result, except in the case of the winning party of a new General Election doing so on a platform specifically based on remaining within the current EU.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:
	No, the mind does not boggle - just because you don't like the result doesn't make it wrong or in any way nonsensical.

On that note, it's the British government's mind that is boggling... the Europeans made it very clear today that they want to get the processus started without delay. Cameron still didn't understand the result of the vote and the Brexit heroes are not in the position to sign papers with the UK government stamp on it. Result: The EU wants the UK out now, the UK are politically on holidays. *Insert faceplam here*.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	rant over, I will steer clear of this thread now as it makes me irate,

Trust me it's the best thing.

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Ummm, Britain voted to not participate in the EU. This means that you wanted and have absolutely no say in the EU's internal affairs.

Not quite. We voted to leave, but until such time as the process is started, the UK has as much theoretical power within the EU as it did before.

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	On that note, it's the British government's mind that is boggling... the Europeans made it very clear today that they want to get the processus started without delay. Cameron still didn't understand the result of the vote and the Brexit heroes are not in the position to sign papers with the UK government stamp on it. Result: The EU wants the UK out now, the UK are politically on holidays. *Insert faceplam here*.

It's the UK's choice when they invoke the treaty and I've not seen a single Brexiteer saying they aren't happy with it being delayed 3 months.

Why should Cameron put up with the shit part of negotiating the exit? He was firmly remain.

[idefix]

I'd leave the EU as well

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Basic services were put on massive strain by Govt cuts, to education, to the NHS, to social services, to public housing (beginning with the sale of Council Houses under Mrs T)- and NOT by EU immigration. Perhaps in some parts of the UK, like East Anglia and the South East- but not generally. With EU migrants contributing positvely to taxes, and in other ways- schools and more services could have been provided. It was a political choice not to do so, which had very little do do with the EU.

Has any government actually ever actually CUT spending? I think you will find they just did not raise spending significantly.....