The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	porsch1909
	Why should Cameron put up with the shit part of negotiating the exit? He was firmly remain.

If you don't think that the British government should respect the voters' choice, then:

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:
	Not quite. We voted to leave, but until such time as the process is started, the UK has as much theoretical power within the EU as it did before.

Good luck with that at the negotiating table.




By the way, wasn't a large part of the problem that Britain didn't have enough power in the EU decision making process?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	Quotes; "EU referendum: Moody's cut UK's credit outlook to 'negative'" "S&P says UK 'to lose top credit rating' after vote to leave the EU" Stupid credit agencies, what do they know?

Credit agencies don't know anything, the only thing they know is something is about to change, change always brings risk to creditors. It's not as if borrowing more money is a good idea.......

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	If you don't think that the British government should respect the voters' choice, then:

Who has said they won't respect the voter's choice? The PM has specifically said we must respect the voter's choice.

You not been taking your pills today Faltrad?

As long as Juncker remains where he is, he won't want much of a relationship. He's a petulant corrupt power hungry little man, not fit for purpose.. but even he can't say no to the pressure of all the member states calling for reform, and the rise of far right (scaring the b'jaysus out of us) demanding referendums, he will have to move out of the way.

And there's one thing he has over looked, some of you too, UK has always had a good solid respectful relationship with the countries of Europe. Brussels is the problem, Europe is fab!

If you were to ask each country under new EU managemet if they would like to see a good solid relationship formed again with the UK, after sour petulant puss gets put out to pasture, the answer would of course be unanimous. Stronger working positively together: economically and politically, albeit a looser union.

The UK will also have to think about Scotland, and NI, take into account their wishes if we are all to stay together. I am a fan of Sturgeon, she'd make a great Prime Minister

The truth today: not many people across Europe have any relationship of worth with the elite eurocrats in Brussels. This is why there is widespread sadness, agreement and understanding in the UK out vote.

We need good leadership now both in the UK and EU.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Not quite. We voted to leave, but until such time as the process is started, the UK has as much theoretical power within the EU as it did before.

Britain’s most senior EU official, Jonathan Hill, is resigning following Britain’s vote to leave the European Union.
Post 2111

ah happy days /Yes Minister:

https://youtu.be/37iHSwA1SwE

[manwithnoname]

	Quote:	greenmount
	lol Sounds like a good joke but I bet you're not kidding now.

strange reaction... like that remark came as a surprise to you? i think the whole thing comes down to scale.

leave and uninformed: hurrdurr. for britain!
leave and informed: eu scary and inefficient -> brexit -> force eu reform or die -> better for europe/world on the long term

remain and uninformed: hurrdurr. say no to hate!
remain and informed: change scary -> short term economic effects -> bremain -> better for britain on the short term

I assume the UK can take the prerogative to take as long as they want to invoke Article 50. I assume Article 50 is not something the EU can invoke on behalf of the UK, and the EU will have to respect all agreements as they stand today until the UK invokes it.

First and foremost is stability, and absorbing any harmful shock. DC's 3 month window was just arbitrarily said. I assume he can retract that and say 3 years if he wants.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Scotland can go if they want

The UK left the EU because the EU is a sinking ship. Talks of joining the EU sound ridiculous while other long standing members talk of leaving it. There will be a lot of acrimony in the air for a very long time. The Scottish statement was simply that - acrimony.

Moving forward, I think it will be a HUGE strategic mistake for Boris Johnson to hastily assume Cameron's PM role. What will happen is the sole ownership of this whole enchilada will be attributed to him. Which includes any failures that come along with it.

Boris Johnson is a brilliant man, and I see his intellect surpasses that of Cameron's. He's also personally and politically savvy. He even knows how to use that mop on his head. The man is a genius, and is also therefore ambitious. But if he thinks he can carry the weight of the whole country on his shoulders, and his party actually allows him to try, I believe the results will be spectacularly tragic. All this and any progress he thinks he may have made can easily be reversed in one single BoJo cycle. I don't know if he or Farage are smart enough to know when to stop, wait and listen.

At this point in time, it would be wiser for Brexiteers to pause and wait to make sure the whole country owns up to what just happened before attempting to move it forward.

[marton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Seriously? Do you think all us out-voters want to see the EU fail? We voted for reform: positive change, improvements to allow for a flexible, accountable and transparent EU. Schulz, Tusk and Juncker need to resign to allow for a new working democratic EU to take shape. The UK and the EU will have a relationship, deals will be made - to think otherwise is plain nonsense. It's already happening: Austria joins Germany & France and calls for reform. It's like the Eurovision song contest count

"We voted for reform: positive change, improvements to allow for a flexible, accountable and transparent EU." Problem is/was that was a very general wish; to generate reform you need to have well specified deliverables.

I mean take transparency as one example; there are thousands of pages of boring and detailed information on the many EU websites - what was the expectation?

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	As long as Juncker remains where he is, he won't want much of a relationship. He's a petulant corrupt power hungry little man, not fit for purpose.. but even he can't say no to the pressure of all the member states calling for reform, and the rise of far right (scaring the b'jaysus out of us) demanding referendums, he will have to move out of the way. And there's one thing he has over looked, some of you too, UK has always had a good solid respectful relationship with the countries of Europe. Brussels is the problem, Europe is fab! If you were to ask each country under new EU managemet if they would like to see a good solid relationship formed again with the UK, after sour petulant puss gets put out to pasture, the answer would of course be unanimous. Stronger working positively together: economically and politically, albeit a looser union. The UK will also have to think about Scotland, and NI, take into account their wishes if we are all to stay together. I am a fan of Sturgeon, she'd make a great Prime Minister The truth today: not many people across Europe have any relationship of worth with the elite eurocrats in Brussels. This is why there is widespread sadness, agreement and understanding in the UK out vote. We need good leadership now both in the UK and EU.

Ah, but we all know it's Mrs. Merkel who has the real power and she's quite happy to be nice to the UK and not rush the government into negotiations.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36630326

	Quote:	marton
	"We voted for reform: positive change, improvements to allow for a flexible, accountable and transparent EU." Problem is/was that was a very general wish; to generate reform you need to have well specified deliverables. I mean take transparency as one example; there are thousands of pages of boring and detailed information on the many EU websites - what was the expectation?

This has to end

From April 2014:

*Search for any mention of trilogues in the EU treaties and you will draw a blank.
This is because despite being an accepted part of the lawmaking landscape, in legal terms trilogues don't exist.
All trilogue meetings are informal and the timing of the meetings are not known to most MEPs, let alone the ordinary public. There are no formal minutes taken. Some are over within a few minutes. Others can go on all day and well into the night.*

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	I assume the UK can take the prerogative to take as long as they want to invoke Article 50. I assume Article 50 is not something the EU can invoke on behalf of the UK, and the EU will have to respect all agreements as they stand today until the UK invokes it. First and foremost is stability, and absorbing any harmful shock. DC's 3 month window was just arbitrarily said. I assume he can retract that and say 3 years if he wants. The UK left the EU because the EU is a sinking ship. Talks of joining the EU sound ridiculous while other long standing members talk of leaving it. There will be a lot of acrimony in the air for a very long time. The Scottish statement was simply that - acrimony. Moving forward, I think it will be a HUGE strategic mistake for Boris Johnson to hastily assume Cameron's PM role. What will happen is the sole ownership of this whole enchilada will be attributed to him. Which means and failures that come along with it. Boris Johnson is a brilliant man, and I see his intellect surpasses that of Cameron's. He's also personally and politically savvy. He even knows how to use that mop on his head. The man is a genius, and is also therefore ambitious. But if he thinks he can carry the weight of the whole country on his shoulders, and his party actually allows him to try, I believe the results will be spectacularly tragic. All this and any progress he thinks he may have made can easily be reversed in the same BoJo cycle. I don't know if he or Farage are smart enough to know when to stop, wait and listen. At this point in time, it would be wiser for Brexiteers to pause and wait to make sure the whole country owns up to what just happened before attempting to move it forward.

"the EU will have to respect all agreements as they stand today" The treaty of Lisbon had changes which included the move from unanimity to qualified majority voting in at least 45 policy areas in the Council of Ministers. The EU can change agreements in many areas without unanimity.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Ah, but we all know it's Mrs. Merkel who ...

When historians look back and analyze what brought down the EU, she will take up a prominent part of the explanation.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Phos
	When historians look back and analyze what brought down the EU, she will take up a prominent part of the explanation.

No, I think englishforum.ch will get the full credit for it.

[CathHarmony]

	Quote:	porsch1909
	It's the UK's choice when they invoke the treaty and I've not seen a single Brexiteer saying they aren't happy with it being delayed 3 months. Why should Cameron put up with the shit part of negotiating the exit? He was firmly remain.

He's working his notice period?, he probably wishes he had some garden leave

I'd be surprised if there wasnt some secret meetings before the vote outcome on how to handle brexit with polls showing such narrow margins between leave and stay leading up to the vote.

It would have been remiss not to have made some plans on how to handle things in the event you lose.

[lost_inbroad]

	Quote:	dimpu
	One of my colleagues hier in Zuerich told me that most of her relatives and friends voted for BREXIT. They were mostly concerned by the high number of foreign criminals (Eastern Europeans, mostly Romanians). For example, Romanians are four times more likely to be jailed than Pakistanis. Other EU countries: France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy and Hungary are faceing similar problems.

Switzerland: 71% in 2015.

And y'all are paying for their sojourn.

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...en_zahlen.html

[marton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	This has to end From April 2014: *Search for any mention of trilogues in the EU treaties and you will draw a blank. This is because despite being an accepted part of the lawmaking landscape, in legal terms trilogues don't exist. All trilogue meetings are informal and the timing of the meetings are not known to most MEPs, let alone the ordinary public. There are no formal minutes taken. Some are over within a few minutes. Others can go on all day and well into the night.*

Good to see a specific point; I do not remember seeing htis mentioned by Brexit?

Anyway this process is under investigation - the European Ombudsman has opened an investigation into the secret meetings between European institutions to shape laws, known as trilogues.

According to the EU website "After each trilogue the negotiating team shall report back to the following meeting of the committee responsible. Documents reflecting the outcome of the last trilogue shall be made available to the committee."

Source

The results of a trilogue have to be voted on by the EU Parliament; it does not automatically become law.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	lost_inbroad
	Switzerland: 71% in 2015. And y'all are paying for their sojourn. http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...en_zahlen.html

Don't know what this page has to do with anything though, Lost...

Do 71% foreign criminals in Swiss prisons have anything to do with Brexit?

[marton]

	Quote:	dimpu
	One of my colleagues hier in Zuerich told me that most of her relatives and friends voted for BREXIT. They were mostly concerned by the high number of foreign criminals (Eastern Europeans, mostly Romanians). For example, Romanians are four times more likely to be jailed than Pakistanis. Other EU countries: France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy and Hungary are faceing similar problems.

Switzerland is not an EU country.

How did voting for Brexit address their concerns about foreign criminals?