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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #22041  
Old 04.09.2019, 18:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The problem with kicking people out is that it just means you now have a block of PMs in the House under no obligation to the party. It also probably means the party won’t have a credible party structure in the constitution for the next GE which makes it very difficult for their new candidate to retain the seat.
I think Boris has played a blinder here, he warned them before hand, vote against me and you're out, they did and he chucked them out, so their own fault, now he gets to replace them with more boris sycophants, the tories will keep the seats as they have a whole load of new brexit voters, he'll gain a majority in the coming general election and brexit will go through by default, he's made everyone look stupid especially jeremy "call an election, oh wait, no I don't want an election" corbyn
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  #22042  
Old 04.09.2019, 18:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's not. For example, why are there plans in the EU to use the money of the natural disaster fund for Brexit support. That's a desperate measure.
Or a sensible way to mitigate the likely damage Brexit will cause some countries.

That's what happens when you are part of a collective greater than yourself, you help out the other guys in their time of need and they'll help you out in the future.
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  #22043  
Old 04.09.2019, 19:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Address the long list of issues faced by the No Deal strategy and explain how it is not a dumb idea. And for a change actually defend your statement with a factual response rather than deflect.

Every time you are called out on one of your assertions it always ends that same long on opinion, short on facts.
Actually doing the no deal is indeed a dumb idea. However, it is a negotiation strategy to get a good deal. A no deal would do a lot of harm to the EU (and the UK). If if would come really close and looks really serious, then the UK's negotiation position is likely to change because the EU leadership would definitely be blamed to let the chaos happen and not doing everything to stop it. It's a kind of a poker game.

I don't know how else to explain it and assumed that my nuclear bomb example was pretty clear. It's not about facts or numbers. It's just about basic logic.
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  #22044  
Old 04.09.2019, 19:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

As expected -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49568760

Brexit: Judge rejects parliament shutdown legal challenge

no contravention of the law by the UK government
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  #22045  
Old 04.09.2019, 19:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

For people like me trying to keep up with terminology and what's going on:

"What is removing the whip, filibustering and other Brexit jargon?"
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49578000
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  #22046  
Old 04.09.2019, 20:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Actually doing the no deal is indeed a dumb idea. However, it is a negotiation strategy to get a good deal. A no deal would do a lot of harm to the EU (and the UK). If if would come really close and looks really serious, then the UK's negotiation position is likely to change because the EU leadership would definitely be blamed to let the chaos happen and not doing everything to stop it. It's a kind of a poker game.

I don't know how else to explain it and assumed that my nuclear bomb example was pretty clear. It's not about facts or numbers. It's just about basic logic.
You can keep repeating it as often as you like but the fact is it has made no difference whatsoever, nor will it. Everyone in the EU knows they are going to take a hit, but they all see it as the UK’s fault.

In Ireland the survey of the border check points has been completed and the army Corp of Engineers have been tasked with putting up the buildings, the new RoRo operating Dublin - Amsterdam now takes 140k of the 190k containers that used to go via the UK, the newly designated French and Irish ports are almost fully upgraded and the Irish grid has been directly connected to the French grid cutting out the UK.

Doing what everyone expects you to do is not much of a negotiation strategy...
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  #22047  
Old 04.09.2019, 20:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As expected -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49568760

Brexit: Judge rejects parliament shutdown legal challenge

no contravention of the law by the UK government
Still has to go to the English High Court and ultimately requires a Supreme Court ruling.
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  #22048  
Old 04.09.2019, 21:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You can keep repeating it as often as you like but the fact is it has made no difference whatsoever, nor will it. Everyone in the EU knows they are going to take a hit, but they all see it as the UK’s fault.

In Ireland the survey of the border check points has been completed and the army Corp of Engineers have been tasked with putting up the buildings, the new RoRo operating Dublin - Amsterdam now takes 140k of the 190k containers that used to go via the UK, the newly designated French and Irish ports are almost fully upgraded and the Irish grid has been directly connected to the French grid cutting out the UK.

Doing what everyone expects you to do is not much of a negotiation strategy...
I think they will agree to a deal or an extension in the end because it’s best for all. I don’t believe the EU shares the same vitriolic hatred of the UK that you do, they do not actively want it to suffer so they can majestically crow that ‘now they are sorry’. There are a few, sure, but I think most people like Merkel and Macron would prefer us to stay in, which fortunately I think is about to happen.
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  #22049  
Old 04.09.2019, 21:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

One of the amendments that’s been motioned for today... a Labour Party MP has asked for option to put Mrs May’s deal back on the table 🤣🤣🤣 you really couldn’t make it up...
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  #22050  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I think it is high time the UK either shits or gets off the pot
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  #22051  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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One of the amendments that’s been motioned for today... a Labour Party MP has asked for option to put Mrs May’s deal back on the table 🤣🤣🤣 you really couldn’t make it up...
Makes sense. The EU won't renegotiate so it's the only deal on the table.
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  #22052  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Makes sense. The EU won't renegotiate so it's the only deal on the table.
They might if they really thought a no deal was a done deal.
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  #22053  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Makes sense. The EU won't renegotiate so it's the only deal on the table.
I actually think the EU would consider renegotiating very specific points as opposed to the whole deal. Johnson hasn't publicly stated any specific points except to say that the backstop has to go, so what is there to negotiate?
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  #22054  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Actually doing the no deal is indeed a dumb idea. However, it is a negotiation strategy to get a good deal. A no deal would do a lot of harm to the EU (and the UK). If if would come really close and looks really serious, then the UK's negotiation position is likely to change because the EU leadership would definitely be blamed to let the chaos happen and not doing everything to stop it. It's a kind of a poker game.

I don't know how else to explain it and assumed that my nuclear bomb example was pretty clear. It's not about facts or numbers. It's just about basic logic.
Usually threats are not a good negotiation stance, better to have some attractive alternatives each with their "price".
I doubt the "EU leadership would definitely be blamed" since it is clear that all 27 countries agreed, supported and stood together behind the deal finally negotiated.
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  #22055  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I promised myself I wouldn't brexit tonight.. my head's done in.

But I had a little listen to the wonderful Kenneth Clark and that was it, I was hooked again.

"I do think the Prime Minister has a tremendous skill in keeping a straight face whilst he's being so disingenuous"



https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1169328135701090305
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  #22056  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I actually think the EU would consider renegotiating very specific points as opposed to the whole deal. Johnson hasn't publicly stated any specific points except to say that the backstop has to go, so what is there to negotiate?
Johnson has so far failed to offer any alternatives to the backstop so saying it has to go is an obstinate position with no inherent solution?
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  #22057  
Old 04.09.2019, 22:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I promised myself I wouldn't brexit tonight.. my head's done in.

But I had a little listen to the wonderful Kenneth Clark and that was it, I was hooked again.

"I do think the Prime Minister has a tremendous skill in keeping a straight face whilst he's being so disingenuous"



https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1169328135701090305
Whoever spoke after Clark said he suggests to the PM to fire Cummings and hire Clark as an adviser, because then he might get some reasonable advice.
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  #22058  
Old 04.09.2019, 23:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Still has to go to the English High Court and ultimately requires a Supreme Court ruling.
In the interview with Jo Maugham after the ruling, he said their first focus is now on an appeal in the inner house sometime this week. We shall see where it goes from there.

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I think they will agree to a deal or an extension in the end because it’s best for all.
I'm absolutely sure that an extension will be given. One of a year has already been touted as acceptable, so 3mths should be no problem. That came from the BBC's or Sky's Brussels correspondent this evening. I forget which.
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  #22059  
Old 04.09.2019, 23:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"I do think the Prime Minister has a tremendous skill in keeping a straight face whilst he's being so disingenuous"

I saw that too.

Just flitting back to last night for a moment, I've found something that might tickle you

https://twitter.com/Alex_Negueruela/...65030287810561
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  #22060  
Old 04.09.2019, 23:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I saw that too.

Just flitting back to last night for a moment, I've found something that might tickle you

https://twitter.com/Alex_Negueruela/...65030287810561
That is brilliant, but I feel a bit sick now.. lol.

If I have strange dreams of Rees-Mogg Esquire tonight it'll be your fault.
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