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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #22201  
Old 08.09.2019, 23:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The people should be given a choice between no-deal and no-exit.
Why would you want to leave out the May-deal which is still an option.

Time to end this stuff in whatever way and with whatever result, economyis taking hits from all this not knowing what will happen, further delay would make it worse.

Besides that, the people voted for leave, they did not vote for a deal or no deal. All the basically told the politicians was "get us the f... out of the EU"
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  #22202  
Old 08.09.2019, 23:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Besides that, the people voted for leave, they did not vote for a deal or no deal. All the basically told the politicians was "get us the f... out of the EU"
Deal or no deal, the outcome is the same which is that the UK leaves the EU which is what those voters wanted. What the terribly-organised referendum failed to include is a question on what type of relationship the UK should secure, should the voter opt for leave.

It is easy to guess why the referendum did not include this question. As history has proven, the politicians themselves had no clue of the full extent of the implications. That they've got to learn about the difference between a customs union and the single market, or about the WTO, after the referendum took place, speaks volumes for their self-interested motives.

Now that the harm is done, the best thing they could do was put to the voters the question again: do you want the UK to leave the EU (yes/no); if yes, what type of exit relationship would you seek (May's deal/no deal); what type of relationship should the UK secure? (single market/free-trade area/none)
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  #22203  
Old 09.09.2019, 00:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Besides that, the people voted for leave, they did not vote for a deal or no deal. All the basically told the politicians was "get us the f... out of the EU"
People were promised a deal and they were told it would be the easiest deal in history to negotiate. Except for Farage, and even then only at times, no deal was not an option.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9088236.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09025ba310fce
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  #22204  
Old 09.09.2019, 01:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

For the geeks, there's an incredible flow chart of options for the coming weeks here. Right click and open the image in a new tab to explore it.

https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1170670546243244032
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  #22205  
Old 09.09.2019, 01:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why would you want to leave out the May-deal which is still an option.

Time to end this stuff in whatever way and with whatever result, economy is taking hits from all this not knowing what will happen, further delay would make it worse.

Besides that, the people voted for leave, they did not vote for a deal or no deal. All the basically told the politicians was "get us the f... out of the EU"
The thing is Edwin and what it all boils down to is Show me the Money and by that I mean give me the links,
give me the video interviews of those in big business, Chairman's, CEO's & CFO's who are looking
forward to severing our trade links with EU countries and are champing at the bit, to start trading with
countries outside the EU and going into Trumps America, once the UK leaves the EU.

Because what I see is a total absence of the above with only the odd exception that can be counted
on one hand like JCB and the pub chain JD Weatherspoon. Of course there might be less well known
UK companies in favour of leaving the EU but which ever way you look at it, they are vastly
outnumbered by those British businesses and organisations who would rather see the UK
remain in the EU.
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  #22206  
Old 09.09.2019, 01:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Now that the harm is done, the best thing they could do was put to the voters the question again: do you want the UK to leave the EU (yes/no); if yes, what type of exit relationship would you seek (May's deal/no deal); what type of relationship should the UK secure? (single market/free-trade area/none)
A complete waste of time because there is no way to enforce it and the government no longer has a majority in parliament.

A this stage probably the only thing that can legally be done is a complete reset. As stated by the ECJ, parliament could revoke A50 and then hold a GE. Most likely it would result in another hung parliament and years of squabbling, but at least it would have a low impact on the economy.
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  #22207  
Old 09.09.2019, 01:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Besides that, the people voted for leave, they did not vote for a deal or no deal. All the basically told the politicians was "get us the f... out of the EU"
That isn’t actually correct. A small majority of the electorate (which is not the “people”) who bothered to vote chose to leave.

Voters were lied to, manipulated, and mislead - by both sides.
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  #22208  
Old 09.09.2019, 04:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That isn’t actually correct. A small majority of the electorate (which is not the “people”) who bothered to vote chose to leave.

Voters were lied to, manipulated, and mislead - by both sides.
They were also being asked to do something they never had to do in the past - put party politics aside and make a strategic decision above the future of their country and they were ill equipped to do so.

If you compare it to Ireland, where voters are used to constitutional referenda and take for instance the recent abortion referendum. The first thing voters wanted to know was if we delegate these powers to parliament, then what’s the plan, how will you implement it, what are the rules, what are the safeguards etc... and because they were changing the laws of the land they wanted to hear legal opinions from the justices of the Supreme Court as to the legal draftsmanship of the paragraphs they were going to amend in the constitution - were there legal issues etc.

And of course they have a referendum commission who is responsible for ensuring that the voters are supplied with factual information. Nothing stops a politician from telling porkies as the thought that tomorrow’s headline won’t be about his brilliant speech, but the fact that the commission concluded he was telling a pack of lies!

You can’t expect people with no experience of this kind of thing to suddenly over night be endowed with the skills necessary to make the decision, it takes time to build up that kind of tradition.
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  #22209  
Old 09.09.2019, 09:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They were also being asked to do something they never had to do in the past - put party politics aside and make a strategic decision above the future of their country and they were ill equipped to do so.
Nonsense, this was the second referendum on continued membership. The last one was on 5 June 1975. Loads of complaints that old fools voted leave, those older people had had a previous vote on this

The government informed every voter by producing this that was delivered to every household.

"Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK.'

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

The only issue is lack of losers consent, something important in a democracy.
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  #22210  
Old 09.09.2019, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nonsense, this was the second referendum on continued membership. The last one was on 5 June 1975. Loads of complaints that old fools voted leave, those older people had had a previous vote on this

The government informed every voter by producing this that was delivered to every household.

"Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK.'

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

The only issue is lack of losers consent, something important in a democracy.
Haven't you been campaigning for 40 odd years to get us out of the EU (/EEC/whatever it was called at various stages) even though you lost the original vote?

Incidentally, the government's advisors are still recommending to stay in the EU, so why are unqualified ministers going against this advice?

Losers' Consent is built into our democratic system - we aren't having civil wars every 5 years, but to expect people to shut up on key issues is naïve. The right to protest is enshrined in UK Law.
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  #22211  
Old 09.09.2019, 10:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Haven't you been campaigning for 40 odd years to get us out of the EU (/EEC/whatever it was called at various stages) even though you lost the original vote?

Incidentally, the government's advisors are still recommending to stay in the EU, so why are unqualified ministers going against this advice?

Losers' Consent is built into our democratic system - we aren't having civil wars every 5 years, but to expect people to shut up on key issues is naïve. The right to protest is enshrined in UK Law.
No, I have never campaigned on the issue or voted. I was too young to vote in 1975 & had lived outside the UK for more than 15 years in the 2016 vote.
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  #22212  
Old 09.09.2019, 11:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No, I have never campaigned on the issue or voted. I was too young to vote in 1975 & had lived outside the UK for more than 15 years in the 2016 vote.
I've got a student bedsit you could have voted from, if only you'd asked
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  #22213  
Old 09.09.2019, 11:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I've got a student bedsit you could have voted from, if only you'd asked
It must be awfully cramped in that bedsit with the 273 other people registered to vote from there too.
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  #22214  
Old 09.09.2019, 11:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It must be awfully cramped in that bedsit with the 273 other people registered to vote from there too.

of which 272 voted remain.
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Old 09.09.2019, 11:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I've got a student bedsit you could have voted from, if only you'd asked
I would never attempt such criminal activity.
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  #22216  
Old 09.09.2019, 11:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Lot of whooshing going on here
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  #22217  
Old 09.09.2019, 11:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris Johnson and Leo Varadkar speak to the press in Dublin.

EDIT: This link should work.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1170985585680498688

Last edited by Swisstree; 09.09.2019 at 12:26.
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  #22218  
Old 09.09.2019, 11:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nonsense, this was the second referendum on continued membership. The last one was on 5 June 1975. Loads of complaints that old fools voted leave, those older people had had a previous vote on this

The government informed every voter by producing this that was delivered to every household.

"Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK.'

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf
They have had two referenda in about 40 years, none of the right questions about say a plan, economic consequences etc... they were ill equipped for the task.

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The only issue is lack of losers consent, something important in a democracy.
Losers are not responsible for implementing the decision and they don’t have to accept the decision, they are fully entitled to campaign for change. That is the change occurs in country’s with a sovereign people - they are fully entitled to change their mind.
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  #22219  
Old 09.09.2019, 12:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Quite likely in a student place. Didn't the result show that a lot of younger people voted to remain and middle-aged to older groups voted to leave?
Yep. Especially those harking back to the pre-EU membership glory days and those with loadsa money.
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  #22220  
Old 09.09.2019, 12:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Quite likely in a student place. Didn't the result show that a lot of younger people voted to remain and middle-aged to older groups voted to leave?
You’re back, that didn’t take long.
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