The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Blueangel]

Best laugh of the day so far. PM leaves the stage to silence. Steph McGovern has to ask the audience to applaud, then she sticks the knife in good style

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/stat...29059919777793

[Reb77Br]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Best laugh of the day so far. PM leaves the stage to silence. Steph McGovern has to ask the audience to applaud, then she sticks the knife in good style https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/stat...29059919777793

She does a good job there. I see from that thread that she issued an apology. Wonder if that was all her own idea or required by the BBC.

Ikea strikes again..

[Blueangel]

On a day when Larry The Cat is claiming to have had 23 missed calls from the LibDems, this threat from the PM is bound to cause ridicule

"Johnson warns EU: The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets"
https://news.sky.com/story/johnson-w...-gets-11810117

WTAF?!!!!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Ikea strikes again.. Attachment 137655

Terribly funny until you realise that the UK's contribution is very much more than 1/27 of EU budget.

[lewton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Terribly funny until you realise that the UK's contribution is very much more than 1/27 of EU budget.

Yeah, and the benefits from the EU membership also much more than 1/27 of the total benefits enjoyed by the members.

[John William]

T-minus 46 days and counting - Get Ready for Brexit !!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	lewton
	Yeah, and the benefits from the EU membership also much more than 1/27 of the total benefits enjoyed by the members.

Like the 500,000 jobs lost between 1973-1975 when we joined the common market?
https://twitter.com/actionbrexit/sta...259778?lang=en

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	lewton
	Yeah, and the benefits from the EU membership also much more than 1/27 of the total benefits enjoyed by the members.

And sadly the benefits could have been much more had they been fully committed to the objective but they never really set out to exploit the opportunity.

I well remember when we joined the EEC back in 1973 and it was seen as the biggest opportunity to come along and the message to the business and farming community was clear: if you don’t organize yourself to take advantage of this market opportunity, then you are a fool. There were all kinds of government schemes to educate and prepare people for the opportunity. Even a scheme where agriculture inspectors went farm to farm to encourage farmers in the West Of Ireland to target the Paris markets for their lambs rather than the traditional UK market etc..

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Like the 500,000 jobs lost between 1973-1975 when we joined the common market? https://twitter.com/actionbrexit/sta...259778?lang=en

And of course this had absolutely nothing to do with the UK’s failure to take advantage of the opportunities on offer.

Ireland and the UK joined the EEC on the same day, they have the same legal system, they had the same currency at the time and accordingly very similar economic policies... and yet the outcomes are very different.

You can’t be a reluctant participant and then blame the other side for all your misfortunes. In absolute terms more Irish 18 olds study a Europe language than in the UK and more Irish firms are willing to do business in German/French/Italian than in the UK. It does not seem like the UK is making much of an effort to exploit a major market on its doorstep.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And of course this had absolutely nothing to do with the UK’s failure to take advantage of the opportunities on offer. Ireland and the UK joined the EEC on the same day, they have the same legal system, they had the same currency at the time and accordingly very similar economic policies... and yet the outcomes are very different. You can’t be a reluctant participant and then blame the other side for all your misfortunes. In absolute terms more Irish 18 olds study a Europe language than in the UK and more Irish firms are willing to do business in German/French/Italian than in the UK. It does not seem like the UK is making much of an effort to exploit a major market on its doorstep.

Ireland then introduced the punt thad dropped v £. Not sure your point
95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU

As Ireland did so well, why are they bothered about losing trade with the UK?
It's such a small trade as far as the EU is concerned, why then should Ireland care

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Ireland then introduced the punt thad dropped v £. Not sure your point 95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU As Ireland did so well, why are they bothered about losing trade with the UK? It's such a small trade as far as the EU is concerned, why then should Ireland care

"95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU" probably true but difficult to get accurate figures.
Probably all the large businesses (over 250 employees) trade with the EU; who cares if your corner shop does not trade with the EU

[marton]

	Quote:
	EU officials have rejected Boris Johnson’s claim that “a huge amount of progress” is being made in Brexit talks, as Jean-Claude Juncker warned that time is running out. Johnson told the Mail on Sunday there were “real signs of movement” in Berlin, Paris and Dublin on getting rid of the backstop, the persistent stumbling block to a Brexit agreement. “A huge amount of progress is being made,” he said. But EU officials involved in talks with Johnson’s envoy, David Frost, have dismissed his upbeat account. “No, in fact people are a bit dismayed,” said one EU source, describing the mood after the latest talks.

Source

Post truth world.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Like the 500,000 jobs lost between 1973-1975 when we joined the common market? https://twitter.com/actionbrexit/sta...259778?lang=en

It’s hypothetical though. It seems like a case of ‘here’s some figures, let’s try to fit the narrative’.

Were there actually half a mill in job losses in that period and can that be directly attributed to joining the common market? All sounds a bit suss and something today’s fact-free Brexiteers would blindly brandish around without checking it out.

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	marton
	"95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU" probably true but difficult to get accurate figures. Probably all the large businesses (over 250 employees) trade with the EU; who cares if your corner shop does not trade with the EU

This is how Brexit politicians can use statistics to influence voters who don't actually think about the actual issue or beyond the headline. Only 5% of UK companies trade with the EU so leaving won't affect us.

It's might be 95% of UK firms who don't directly export to the EU. But many more, probably a large majority, will supply goods and components to those 5%, mostly larger companies, that do.

And probably 95% or more of UK companies do import from the EU either directly or indirectly. Including of course virtually all of the corner shops you mention.

[John William]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Like the 500,000 jobs lost between 1973-1975 when we joined the common market? https://twitter.com/actionbrexit/sta...259778?lang=en

Who gives a toss what the job market in the UK was like 45 years ago or more ??
No doubt many of the valued jobs now weren't even invented back then although no doubt some
who live in the past would lament the demise of the Typewriter and the passing of the
redundant Typists.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Ireland then introduced the punt thad dropped v £. Not sure your point 95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU

The point is that they started out with more or less the same situation. The decisions made by both countries in how the decided to take advantage of what was available determines the current state of affairs. If 95% of UK companies choose to ignore the opportunities then that is their problem and belly aching about the EU having no advantage is just dumb.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	As Ireland did so well, why are they bothered about losing trade with the UK? It's such a small trade as far as the EU is concerned, why then should Ireland care

When Ireland jointed the EEC in 1973, UK exports account for about 70+% of all exports, today it is about 15% in third place after Belgium. So of course it is an important market as it is for many EU states, but what the BREXITEERS don't is that none of them including Ireland have any intention in sacrificing their EU advantages for the small market.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	John William
	Who gives a toss what the job market in the UK was like 45 years ago or more ?? No doubt many of the valued jobs now weren't even invented back then although no doubtsome who live in the past would lament the demise of the Typewriter and the passing of the redundant Typists.

This is true and from what I remember one industry that was completely wiped out was the shoe industry, but then it was mainly sustained by government subventions and protectionist measures in any case.

But fatmanfilms whole argument is based on the idea that EU membership benefits should have accrued naturally to the UK, without them doing anything about it.

Instead of trotting out the statistic: 95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU, he should be demanding to know why they have not made the same effort as everyone else... Ireland is the only EU state which the UK has a trade surplus with, it is also the one that speaks English and has the same legal framework.... Perhaps BREXITEERS idea of trading with the world means the English speaking world - The US being the only other company they have a trade surplus with.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	This is true and from what I remember one industry that was completely wiped out was the shoe industry, but then it was mainly sustained by government subventions and protectionist measures in any case. But fatmanfilms whole argument is based on the idea that EU membership benefits should have accrued naturally to the UK, without them doing anything about it. Instead of trotting out the statistic: 95% of UK companies don't trade with the EU, he should be demanding to know why they have not made the same effort as everyone else... Ireland is the only EU state which the UK has a trade surplus with, it is also the one that speaks English and has the same legal framework.... Perhaps BREXITEERS idea of trading with the world means the English speaking world - The US being the only other company they have a trade surplus with.

US is a bigger market too
As you will rightly rightly point out that was not the case for most of the past 30 years, which shows the EU's rate of growth is less than the USA, much better to concentrate on a growing market IMHO

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	US is a bigger market too As you will rightly rightly point out that was not the case for most of the past 30 years, which shows the EU's rate of growth is less than the USA, much better to concentrate on a growing market IMHO

This is the one that you will not get approved by Congress without fully respecting the GFA and make you economically dependent on the US... oh and by the way have you read the US trade objectives....