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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #22801  
Old 29.09.2019, 23:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sorry, I meant complaint. Something of an aggressive tone for a simple piece of English I typed on the iPhone in a hurry.

But I forgot you hate England and are hoping we suffer as acutely as possible so you can gloat in your superiority.
England huh? Perhaps you should have said UK? But nah, say it like you feel it.
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  #22802  
Old 29.09.2019, 23:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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England huh? Perhaps you should have said UK? But nah, say it like you feel it.
I think whatever I say it will continue to have any grammatical, syntax, logical, moral or any other area pointed out on this thread on EF now. This topic is reduced to a group of people who all share exactly the same viewpoint bullying anyone who veers from their opinion with the same sniggering superiority that we see reflected in the current situation back home.

The UK is entering a really genuinely dangerous phase of existence in the coming month where it will either leave as was voted for which is what Johnson wants. If he is overturned as PM and then we will undoubtedly then remain part of the EU for a generation - which I think is wrong as it was not the correct course of action as described by the referendum. Whether it was advisory or not is irrelevant to the vast majority of uk citizens, the government said they would execute the result.

Anyway this argument has gone on for long enough for me anyway. Like loz and the others it’s getting a bit too abrasive from the weight of arch remainers here so I’ll give it a rest. I hope we end up still in the EU after we have first left and then apply to rejoin which would be the correct democratic process.
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  #22803  
Old 29.09.2019, 23:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Bye bye Little Englander.
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  #22804  
Old 30.09.2019, 00:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Whether it was advisory or not is irrelevant to the vast majority of uk citizens, the government said they would execute the result.
Except that a GE trumps everything and in the GE that followed this advisory referendum, the voters failed to give a mandate to any party to carry out their supposed wishes in the referendum. If the voters wanted BREXIT to be carried out then they should have elected a parliament that would carry it out.

The current parliament is not obligated to follow the promises of the previous parliament and if people are not happy with that then a conversation of constitutional reform is what is needed.
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  #22805  
Old 30.09.2019, 01:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Like loz and the others it’s getting a bit too abrasive from the weight of arch remainers here so I’ll give it a rest.
Hate to break it to you, but the 'arch remainer' you quoted is Greek, so neither British nor a remainer.

Last edited by Blueangel; 30.09.2019 at 08:44.
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  #22806  
Old 30.09.2019, 09:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

That Boris Johnson has not won a vote in Parliament, Dinivan, is not through any fault of his own. It is symptomatic of a failing political system and the reason that he wishes to hold an election as the only viable way of rectifying the situation. If his fellow MPs were to send him away then they might as well leave the party as they wouldn't be respecting the result of the Conservative leadership contest which was only a few months ago. All Boris Johnson has done is to try and enact what he was chosen by his party to do.
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  #22807  
Old 30.09.2019, 11:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK is entering a really genuinely dangerous phase of existence in the coming month where it will either leave as was voted for which is what Johnson wants. If he is overturned as PM and then we will undoubtedly then remain part of the EU for a generation - which I think is wrong as it was not the correct course of action as described by the referendum. Whether it was advisory or not is irrelevant to the vast majority of uk citizens, the government said they would execute the result.

Anyway this argument has gone on for long enough for me anyway. Like loz and the others it’s getting a bit too abrasive from the weight of arch remainers here so I’ll give it a rest. I hope we end up still in the EU after we have first left and then apply to rejoin which would be the correct democratic process.
Believe it or not, I tried to make the same argument (you know, the ''but this is what people voted for!") moons or better said - pages ago, and I got quite a few levelheaded answers that I found difficult to counterargue.

I might be biased, of course, but that doesn't mean I will reject any opinion that doesn't fit mine before even hearing it. Over the course of this debate, I personally remarked that the Leavers were the ones less inclined to hear opposite views and maybe that's way many have left the building much quicker than the other camp. I believe there will be a Brexit because the Referendum result was a clear proof that certain political forces would do everything to get UK out of EU, and they won't stop. The job will be accomplished, whether that is a good thing for the UK....I doubt now, but who knows.

I totally agree on this one though: it doesn't make much sense to continue a discussion where you feel like you really made your point and gave everything..but to no effect. I don't agree with your arguments but I understand your decision. If it helps, our discussions are just a storm in a glass of water....

P.S. C'mon, Loz and many others in the "Leave" camp were pretty "abrasive" themselves (I like using euphemisms, btw), pointing to the other side doesn't really help anyone.

Last edited by greenmount; 30.09.2019 at 14:41. Reason: typos
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  #22808  
Old 30.09.2019, 12:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I hope we end up still in the EU after we have first left and then apply to rejoin which would be the correct democratic process.
The problem with that is, there won't be a UK rebate any more and in all likelihood the £ would have do die as well. I'm pretty sure that, even if there was some kind of exit and re-entry, that would still be called bullying and nothing but the EU's fault for generations to come.
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  #22809  
Old 30.09.2019, 12:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That Boris Johnson has not won a vote in Parliament, Dinivan, is not through any fault of his own. It is symptomatic of a failing political system and the reason that he wishes to hold an election as the only viable way of rectifying the situation. If his fellow MPs were to send him away then they might as well leave the party as they wouldn't be respecting the result of the Conservative leadership contest which was only a few months ago. All Boris Johnson has done is to try and enact what he was chosen by his party to do.
If it was not Boris's fault that he has not won a vote in Parliament then whose fault is it?

PMs are supposed to be smart and political enough to ensure their votes are so constructed and managed that they win.

It is hard for MPs to respect the result of the Conservative leadership contest when Boris has so far conspicuously failed to deliver on any of his campaign promises like renegotiating the EU deal?
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  #22810  
Old 30.09.2019, 12:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is hard for MPs to respect the result of the Conservative leadership contest when Boris has so far conspicuously failed to deliver on any of his campaign promises like renegotiating the EU deal?
I have a sneaking suspicion that his own party membership set him up to fail because the ERG went after May. They largely believe they can survive the hit whilst also negating the Brexit Party and clearing the decks of those who got them into this mess. They will be his strongest critics if he fails and they will set about rebuilding their party.
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  #22811  
Old 30.09.2019, 13:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The problem with that is, there won't be a UK rebate any more and in all likelihood the £ would have do die as well. I'm pretty sure that, even if there was some kind of exit and re-entry, that would still be called bullying and nothing but the EU's fault for generations to come.
Well the rebate is already gone as of the next budget period regardless of whether the U.K. revokes A50 or not.
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  #22812  
Old 30.09.2019, 13:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That Boris Johnson has not won a vote in Parliament, Dinivan, is not through any fault of his own. It is symptomatic of a failing political system and the reason that he wishes to hold an election as the only viable way of rectifying the situation. If his fellow MPs were to send him away then they might as well leave the party as they wouldn't be respecting the result of the Conservative leadership contest which was only a few months ago. All Boris Johnson has done is to try and enact what he was chosen by his party to do.
Do you understand how a parliamentary democracy works? It is up to the government to ensure they have a working major to carry out their policy. Boris started out with a majority of one, not great, but still a majority. He then through his actions failed to keep his own MPs on side and as a result he lost his majority and that is absolutely on him.

And as for a broken political system, when a PM no longer enjoys the a majority of his own party in parliament he resigns., so that someone else in the party may take over as May did. Instead you have the daft situation of a PM who no longer enjoys the confidence of the house trying to negotiate a deal with the EU. Where is the point, everyone in the EU knows no matter what he proposes or agrees to is pointless since he cannot deliver.
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  #22813  
Old 30.09.2019, 14:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It's nobody's "fault" marton, rather the result of leading a minority government that he inherited. The situation is such that no one could be smart or political enough in the current climate to hold a successful government together. The only resolution is to have a General Election and hope that it resolves parliamentary numbers.

Jim2007, it is absolutely not mandatory for Boris Johnson to resign, nor has it ever been that a PM has to resign having lost their majority in the UK's parliamentary system. There are numerous examples of PM's leading minority governments. What is normal however is that a PM be able call an election when Parliament is gridlocked, and this is currently being denied to Boris Johnson thanks to the Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011 and a number of obstructing MPs.
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Old 30.09.2019, 14:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's nobody's "fault" marton, rather the result of leading a minority government that he inherited. The situation is such that no one could be smart or political enough in the current climate to hold a successful government together. The only resolution is to have a General Election and hope that it resolves parliamentary numbers.

Jim2007, it is absolutely not mandatory for Boris Johnson to resign, nor has it ever been that a PM has to resign having lost their majority in the UK's parliamentary system. There are numerous examples of PM's leading minority governments. What is normal however is that a PM be able call an election when Parliament is gridlocked, and this is currently being denied to Boris Johnson thanks to the Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011 and a number of obstructing MPs.
On the first paragraph, he actually inherited a majority government. His own actions caused him to loose that majority.

On the second, the number of obstructing MPs were actually the majority of the house. Not only did he fail to win the 2/3rds needed, he failed to win even 50%.
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Old 30.09.2019, 14:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That Boris Johnson has not won a vote in Parliament, Dinivan, is not through any fault of his own. .......
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It's nobody's "fault" marton,........
Excuse me, who brought the word fault into this discussion?
And now you want to deny it was anybody's fault?
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  #22816  
Old 30.09.2019, 14:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well the rebate is already gone as of the next budget period regardless of whether the U.K. revokes A50 or not.
Got a link for that?

The proposed/budgeted €12bln from the UK for 2020 is roughly the same as this year.
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  #22817  
Old 30.09.2019, 16:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That Boris Johnson has not won a vote in Parliament, Dinivan, is not through any fault of his own. It is symptomatic of a failing political system and the reason that he wishes to hold an election as the only viable way of rectifying the situation. If his fellow MPs were to send him away then they might as well leave the party as they wouldn't be respecting the result of the Conservative leadership contest which was only a few months ago. All Boris Johnson has done is to try and enact what he was chosen by his party to do.

Theresa May did score some wins and she had exactly as many MPs in the parliament as Boris.

Then a bunch of old voters elect BoJo to be PM, and his first act is to alienate all of those moderate Tory MPs he disagrees with, going as far as kicking them out of the party for not voting with him in a blatant act of hypocrisy considering that he did not vote with May in many occasions. Then he insults the opposition and uses language that incites violence against MPs and judges that oppose his view on Brexit.

That he has taken only to extreme positions and that he is unwilling to listen, reach conciliatory terms, and stitch the country and parliament together, is entirely his own fault.
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  #22818  
Old 30.09.2019, 16:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Got a link for that?

The proposed/budgeted €12bln from the UK for 2020 is roughly the same as this year.
It's for the budget period 21 - 27, not 20. Sorry on the move at present, will try and find the link later.
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  #22819  
Old 30.09.2019, 16:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's nobody's "fault" marton, rather the result of leading a minority government that he inherited. The situation is such that no one could be smart or political enough in the current climate to hold a successful government together. The only resolution is to have a General Election and hope that it resolves parliamentary numbers.
He started with a majority.

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Jim2007, it is absolutely not mandatory for Boris Johnson to resign, nor has it ever been that a PM has to resign having lost their majority in the UK's parliamentary system. There are numerous examples of PM's leading minority governments. What is normal however is that a PM be able call an election when Parliament is gridlocked, and this is currently being denied to Boris Johnson thanks to the Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011 and a number of obstructing MPs.
He does not have a minority government, he has not been able to win a single vote for heavens sake.
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  #22820  
Old 30.09.2019, 16:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's for the budget period 21 - 27, not 20. Sorry on the move at present, will try and find the link later.
Ok.

A quick check gives the impression that the long-term financial planning is based on EU-27, i.e. without the UK, the only approach that makes sense if you ask me. For instance this one form Dec 2018.
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