The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[amogles]

	Quote:
	While the EU27 members would continue uninterrupted trade with the other EU countries and also uninterrupted trade under FTAs with other countries outside it, from the position of force and influence that only a massive trading bloc of 450 million can provide, the UK will be starting again from scratch.

What's the value of a strong negotiating position if you aren't allowed to sit at the negotiating table? If instead the negotiations are being run by somebody who is trying to get something that has a little bit for everybody but nothing great for anybody?

	Quote:
	Brexit would be like the very beginning of a long car journey. Brexit ends with unlocking the car door. It's afterwards that the engine will have to be started, the route mapped out, the wheels set in motion and the actual trip started with all its traffic problems and inevitable accidents along the way. It will be expensive, complicated, long and difficult. No one denies this any longer. Not even the government. So Brexit is not the end of a journey. It is not even the end of the beginning of a journey. It is just the beginning of the beginning.

Nothing in history is final. Everything is just the beginning of something else.

The original predecessor of the EU was set up with the specific aim of defending the inefficient coal and steel industry of Wallonia and Luxemburg. And look where it has taken us?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	The massive mistake almost everyone makes on both sides is to imagine that Brexit is a finality.

Would anybody really think that?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	What's the value of a strong negotiating position if you aren't allowed to sit at the negotiating table? If instead the negotiations are being run by somebody who is trying to get something that has a little bit for everybody but nothing great for anybody?

So the junior partner, the UK, in every major trade deal expects to get better terms that the EU.... Lets the forget that the UK like every other member of the EU had the right to veto any traded deal that was not in it's best interests. Had the UK been on the ball it would have been able to veto the Japan deal to protect it's car manufacturing... but now Japan can import directly to the EU

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Would anybody really think that?

Well if you think they don't then what is the BREXITEERs plan to get the UK's trade schedules agreed at the WTO? What is the plan to get a US trade deal approved by Congress?

BREXITEER thinking does not go beyond the 31st of October, because if it did they'd have difficulties explaining how they'd progress.

[TonyClifton]

Do you honestly think it's healthy that this Parliament plods on for the next three years unable to agree on anything unless it involves asking the EU for extensions to Article 50, marton? There is more to running the country than Brexit, and the state of the parliamentary numbers mean that it is unlikely that any legislation will be passed. I can't imagine even a budget getting passed in the current climate.

There is also an issue with the judiciary being involved last week. Firstly, this was an issue that could easily have been solved in Parliament had a motion of no confidence been brought against the government, so there was no need for the courts to be involved at all. Secondly, since the courts ruled that they are able to involve themselves in political matters, the door has now been left open in future that this be taken into consideration when supreme court judges are chosen.

The same goes for John Bercow. He is an activist Remain speaker. Through his actions, by expanding the powers of the speaker and being so partisan, the first thing any government with a big majority in future will do is to replace the speaker with someone of their choosing to ensure they avoid having someone who can interfere as much as John Bercow has. He's changed Parliamentary procedure to frustrate Brexit, he's allowed MPs to seize control of the order paper from the executive on a regular basis. It's no coincidence that MPs only left him in his place after the Cox report into his bullying simply because he was a useful tool to use in their efforts to frustrate Brexit.

Remainers may celebrate these small victories, however the damage that's been done to the British Political System long term will very likely cause some regrets further down the road.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Well if you think they don't then what is the BREXITEERs plan to get the UK's trade schedules agreed at the WTO? What is the plan to get a US trade deal approved by Congress? BREXITEER thinking does not go beyond the 31st of October, because if it did they'd have difficulties explaining how they'd progress.

You mix up Brexiteers and the current UK government.

[mobk]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	BREXITEERs plan ...... BREXITEER thinking .........

Good one!

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	... the first thing any government with a big majority in future will do is to replace the speaker with someone of their choosing to ensure they avoid having someone who can interfere as much as John Bercow has...

Perhaps you should check how the Speaker is elected (note the word). S/He is very much NOT a government appointment.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Do you honestly think it's healthy that this Parliament plods on for the next three years unable to agree on anything unless it involves asking the EU for extensions to Article 50, marton? There is more to running the country than Brexit, and the state of the parliamentary numbers mean that it is unlikely that any legislation will be passed. I can't imagine even a budget getting passed in the current climate. There is also an issue with the judiciary being involved last week. Firstly, this was an issue that could easily have been solved in Parliament had a motion of no confidence been brought against the government, so there was no need for the courts to be involved at all. Secondly, since the courts ruled that they are able to involve themselves in political matters, the door has now been left open in future that this be taken into consideration when supreme court judges are chosen.

..as to the rest then perhaps UK parties should learn to cooperate a bit, the way they do in most mature countries.

Oh and the courts ruled on a constitutional matter, not a political one. Establishing that the PM is subject to the rule of law is not a bad thing imo.

	Quote:
	..as to the rest then perhaps UK parties should learn to cooperate a bit, the way they do in most mature countries.

I'll get my mate Boris to give Donald a call to get some helpful tips

	Quote:
	I'll get my mate Boris to give Donald a call to get some helpful tips

I did say mature countries.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	I did say mature countries.

Why plural? The only mature country I know is Ireland.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Why plural? The only mature country I know is Ireland.

and Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland...

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Why plural? The only mature country I know is Ireland.

Time to broaden your horizon ...

	Quote:
	I did say mature countries.

Too late mate, already sent the Tweet

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Too late mate, already sent the Tweet

one word: MEGA

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Do you honestly think it's healthy that this Parliament plods on for the next three years unable to agree on anything unless it involves asking the EU for extensions to Article 50, Marton?

There is more to Parliament than the House of Commons?

They do agree but not to the decisions you believe they should make.

The courts have not been dragged into politics; on the contrary, they have been ruling on Constitutional matters for many years. The rule of law has run through the constitution since the Magna Carta 1215, this means the government may only conduct itself according to legal authority.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Remainers may celebrate these small victories, however the damage that's been done to the British Political System long term will very likely cause some regrets further down the road.

Nah. As a devout remainer, I'm just astonished that you might actually believe what you write as it's the complete antithesis of what actually happened. The matters raised in your post aren't open to interpretation. They are matters of law and constitution.

If you'd take a moment to read the link I posted for you earlier, https://davidallengreen.com/2019/09/...week-that-was/ you'd have a far better grasp of the reality of the situation, particularly the SC judgement. If anything over the past 3 years was absolutely, emphatically and resolutely clear, it was that judgement. It was quite simply a matter of constitutional law. Nothing political about it.

Your choice is...you either want Britain to remain a parliamentary democracy, subject to the rule of law with an independent judiciary, or you don't. It beggars belief that every time Britain's system behaves in the way it was designed to, the brexiters complain bitterly that it thwarts their single issue. When people gave their reasons for voting leave, they almost always claimed to want control of their laws and to take back sovereignty. If they rally against the SC judgement it only serves to show that they don't understand the very things they claimed to have wanted so much. #confused.

[Blueangel]

Punch up at the CPC...

"The treasurer of the 1922 committee, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, has been held by police after an incident in the International Lounge at the Tory party conference. " https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace/statu...26112585842689

[keyboardandmouse]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Punch up at the CPC... "The treasurer of the 1922 committee, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, has been held by police after an incident in the International Lounge at the Tory party conference. " https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace/statu...26112585842689

bit of a tiff over letting his wife into VIP area. Just before they do the speech on being tough on crime.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	keyboardandmouse
	bit of a tiff over letting his wife into VIP area. Just before they do the speech on being tough on crime.

Please tell me that didn't lead to fisticuffs? It would be a rather hot headed response.