The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	At last! There we have it! The entire reason the referendum happened when it did, was because of changes to tax laws. And to think that a self-admitted tax Dodger would happily throw millions of his fellow countrymen under the bus all to save himself a few pennies

Nothing to do with change in tax laws, I was never required to take permanent residence (like a C permit), historically people have been an ordinary resident for 30 years plus.
What do you mean by self admitted 'tax dodger', I actually currently pay more income tax than I would in the U.K., as the UK personal allowance will likely exceed my income until my state retirement age. Anyone living in Zurich, Zug or Schwwyz could be described as tax dodgers as those are the 3 lowest tax cantons.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Seems like you don't understand how referendums work. FMF had only one vote and his own motivation. So did all other voters.

I had no vote at all as he has not lived in the UK for over 20 years at the time, however my wife voted remain, she has definitely been paid for out of EU budgets on occasions.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	John William
	So your not an Expat in Switzerland ?

No, however I lived in Switzerland for 19 years 11 months,

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	amogles
	In contrast to people whose opinion on Brexit is guided by property they own, or want to inherit?

No inheritance here! Both of my parents have long since passed (1983 + 2005).

My No.1 concern at the time of the referendum, and which I didn't bang on about on here because it would have been viewed as a 'bleeding heart' reason, was that our late nephew, one of my closest friends and my best mate's dad where all having chemo and radiotherapy. So excuse me for citing all the peripherals in 2016. It was a far easier tack for me to take in the moment. The people who genuinely know me are under no illusions what my primary motivation was. As my best mate's dad requires fortnightly chemo for the rest of his life, my opinion will never change because any medical supply chain interuptions will be catastrophic to him and two other very close friends who are Type 1 diabetics.

My personal situation is manageable.

[keyboardandmouse]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	No inheritance here! Both of my parents have long since passed (1983 + 2005). My No.1 concern at the time of the referendum, and which I didn't bang on about on here because it would have been viewed as a 'bleeding heart' reason, was that our late nephew, one of my closest friends and my best mate's dad where all having chemo and radiotherapy. So excuse me for citing all the peripherals in 2016. It was a far easier tack for me to take in the moment. The people who genuinely know me are under no illusions what my primary motivation was. As my best mate's dad requires fortnightly chemo for the rest of his life, my opinion will never change because any medical supply chain interuptions will be catastrophic to him and two other very close friends who are Type 1 diabetics. My personal situation is manageable.

wow. So if the EU doesnt get it's way it will stop medicines going into the UK ? Thats unbelievable, isnt there some global law or something to stop that kind of thing ?

	Quote:	keyboardandmouse
	wow. So if the EU doesnt get it's way it will stop medicines going into the UK ? Thats unbelievable, isnt there some global law or something to stop that kind of thing ?

No.

But the expected heavy backlogs at the ports are likely to delay supplies. Particularly critical for radiotherapy where the isotopes needed have a very short lifetime and are apparently only sourced in France.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	No. But the expected heavy backlogs at the ports are likely to delay supplies. Particularly critical for radiotherapy where the isotopes needed have a very short lifetime and are apparently only sourced in France.

Yup. There are only two reactors in Europe that manufacture radioisotopes and both are on the continent.

As I said yesterday, there's currently a drug shortage in many countries caused by issues at their places of origin/manufacture. Current UK shortages are drugs for HRT, diabetes, epilepsy, etc...all the way down to contraceptives and ibuprofen. The prospect of a possible no deal brexit in 4 weeks time will only exacerbate those shortages, and without any exaggeration required, that's life threatening.

The video in this link explains the situation as it is this week...
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-02/...ly-disruption/

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	keyboardandmouse
	wow. So if the EU doesnt get it's way it will stop medicines going into the UK ? Thats unbelievable, isnt there some global law or something to stop that kind of thing ?

Stop talking nonsense and think about reality.... as ports fill up with the backlog, no one will have any idea where in the jam the trucks with the meds are nor even if you do know where they are there is no way to move them up the queue because of the jam. Now add in all the perishable goods such as foods and so on that will also need priority.... so what do you want food or meds? On top of which it is not within the control of the UK as to what happens at an EU port. You cause the mess, do not expect others to prioritise fixing your problem for you.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	There you are WRONG, if you take permanent residence you are no longer taxed on a remittance basis & liable to CGT tax on worldwide gains. No thanks .

So your argument for a 10 resident permit being a better option that FMOP and there being a better chance of your pension being paid was what exactly?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Stop talking nonsense and think about reality.... as ports fill up with the backlog, no one will have any idea where in the jam the trucks with the meds are nor even if you do know where they are there is no way to move them up the queue because of the jam. Now add in all the perishable goods such as foods and so on that will also need priority.... so what do you want food or meds? On top of which it is not within the control of the UK as to what happens at an EU port. You cause the mess, do not expect others to prioritise fixing your problem for you.

nicely dramatic as always.


You seem to forget that the UK is not the only stakeholder. There are also the pharmaceutical companies that want to do business and will push and lobby for very pragmatic solutions.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	nicely dramatic as always. You seem to forget that the UK is not the only stakeholder. There are also the pharmaceutical companies that want to do business and will push and lobby for very pragmatic solutions.

Not being dramatic. From Yellowhammer:

	Quote:
	“The lack of trader readiness combined with limited space in French ports to hold ‘unready’ HGVs could reduce the flow rate to 40%-60% of current levels within one day as unready HGVs will fill the ports and block flow,”

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	nicely dramatic as always. You seem to forget that the UK is not the only stakeholder. There are also the pharmaceutical companies that want to do business and will push and lobby for very pragmatic solutions.

?? how? paperwork will need to be in order, checks will need to be done, only way to beat traffic jams at ports will be to fly them in, who's gonna pay for that?? the drug companies are going to sell the drugs regardless, they don't care if they are stuck in a queue at calais for a week.

I think lots of people seem to live in this utopian dream where big business really love and care for their end customers, they don't, they sell 1 million widgets to customer A, what happens to those widgets when they leave the factory gate they couldn't give a toss about just as long as they get paid, if those widgets all get spoilt in the back of a lorry, BONUS!! we get to sell them another million widgets, customer A gets arsey, well, who cares customer B is also screaming for their widgets.

[bigblue2]

as I've said before, I used to live along the M20 in kent, I've seen 'project stack' first hand, I've seen what a couple of cross channel ferry workers can do to the ports when they strike and joyride in a dinghy round calais harbour, remember a few years ago? the chaos from that lasted weeks, kent literally comes to a stand still, lorries where stuck for days and lost their loads, and all the while the tunnel was still running, this was just ferries.

Can you imagine for 1 second if the ports AND tunnel are snarled up??? the french can easily make this happen just by working to rule, checking all paperwork and vehicles, and I'm sure they are going to want all the incoming vehicles and paperwork to be in order before they are allowed in too.

[fatmanfilms]

I am sure Jim will confirm that EU law overrides UK law.

Once we can agree on that, the Benn Act can not over rule Art 50.

Article 50 says that we will leave the EU at the end of negotiation period either with a negotiated withdrawal agreement or without.

The Benn act however, seeks to remove the ‘without’ from the table, which then makes it in contravention and at odds with what Article 50 and EU law states.

Clearly BJ knows this which is why he says he will abide by the law.

[Blueangel]

FMF, please remember that Rees-Mogg has no legal training, and he is one of the main people repeating this trope.

You need to read up on the 'Nob Off case' which will be heard in the Scottish Courts on Friday https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...k-eu-for-delay

and read this ...
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...978960384.html

Edit: You might also like to read this piece for reference.

	Quote:
	Q Does the Act violate EU law? A No. This is an incredibly weak legal argument. Article 50 says nothing about a request for an extension, and therefore nothing about how a request must be made. It does refer to the withdrawing Member State accepting a request, but says nothing about how that process of acceptance takes place. It refers to national constitutional requirements determining whether a notification of leaving the EU is sent, but does not define what those requirements are. In the Shindler case (discussed here), the EU courts have said that it’s up to the UK’s legal and political system to define what these requirements are, and whether they have been met. However, it’s possible that the EU might have legal or political doubts about considering a request for extension that is not from the Prime Minister in person. This remains to be seen.

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/20...extension.html

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am sure Jim will confirm that EU law overrides UK law. Once we can agree on that, the Benn Act can not over rule Art 50. Article 50 says that we will leave the EU at the end of negotiation period either with a negotiated withdrawal agreement or without. The Benn act however, seeks to remove the ‘without’ from the table, which then makes it in contravention and at odds with what Article 50 and EU law states. Clearly BJ knows this which is why he says he will abide by the law.

Another skill you don't have - legal skills.

- EU law only overrides UK in very specific instances

- The Been Act is fully in line with the treaty requirements

And as for BoJo he has little or no understanding of the treaty requirements as he has regularly demonstrated.

[Dinivan]

	Quote:
	US tariffs impact uneven across Europe’s food and drinks industry [...] The WTO has authorised the US to slap levies on $7.5bn worth of EU imports annually after a dispute over illegal aircraft subsidies granted to Airbus, the European aerospace company. The US trade representative’s office set out a plan to put 25 per cent tariffs on goods including wines, olive oil, yoghurt and sweaters. A raft of companies, from Italy’s pecorino cheese makers to British tailors of men’s suits, will be affected. But in the drinks industry, where investors had been bracing for a potentially severe impact, the US has spared cognac, champagne and some Irish whiskies. Irish whiskies made in Northern Ireland will be affected by tariffs but those made in the Republic of Ireland will not. Scotch whisky made in Scotland will be affected too. [...] European consumer products to be hit by 25% US tariffs UK Single-malt (or straight) Irish and Scotch whiskies UK Wool and cashmere sweaters, pullovers, sweatshirts, waistcoats UK Fine wool suits UK Women’s nightwear UK Bed linen, cotton blankets Germany Scissors, knives, metalwork tools, coffee Germany, Spain, UK Pork products France, Germany, Spain, UK Olive oil, green olives Germany, Spain, UK Fresh cheese, Edam and Gouda EU broadly Swiss cheese, Gruyère, Pecorino, Romano, Reggiano, Parmesan, Provolone, Stilton EU broadly Yoghurt, butter France, Germany, Spain, UK Wine other than Tokay (not carbonated), under 14% alcohol, under 2 litres Germany, Ireland, Italy, Spain, UK Liqueurs EU broadly Preserved cherries, fruit, vegetable and fruit juices Germany, UK Sweet biscuits, waffles, wafers

So much for the Brexiteer dream of having a special relationship with the US...

I bet the BoJo administration will end up settling for the removal of these new tariffs in exchange for the chlorinated chicken and call it a victory.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	keyboardandmouse
	Thats unbelievable, isnt there some global law or something to stop that kind of thing ?

What???

You're for Brexit because, as you Brexiteers claim, you want your sovereignty back. Yet at the first hurdle you cry "Mummy, help!" expecting some supranational entity (hint: the EU is such an entity) to take the helm and solve your problems for you that you create yourself with Brexit, and at will, to boot.

<major facepalm>

Not that your claim holds any water in the first place. Still, your post sums up Brexiteer "logic" perfectly well.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Another skill you don't have - legal skills. - EU law only overrides UK in very specific instances - The Been Act is fully in line with the treaty requirements And as for BoJo he has little or no understanding of the treaty requirements as he has regularly demonstrated.

I admire your confidence, however it's not shared by a partner in a top London Law practice.

Lets wait & see only a few weeks of this nonsense left

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I admire your confidence, however it's not shared by a partner in a top London Law practice.

For anyone not aware of this story, I love Jo Maugham's response.

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/sta...37054820028416