The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[msmaddymax]

I'm not British, so I don't really have a say (nor should I), but I have spent extended periods of my life in the UK, specifically London, Scotland and NI. If Brexit should lead to the dissolution of the UK (a possibility, not necessarily a probability), that would be a crying shame. There is something ineffable about the ties that bond these various lands, and the heart breaks at the thought of them breaking apart. Of course the idea that NI will leave the UK (and join the Republic!!) is a joke — I think the loyalists would collectively kill themselves first.

[marton]

	Quote:	moggy
	Does anyone know who William Oliver Healey is? his petition is now over 2 million only needed 100,000 for a Parliament Debate https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

German newspapers are claiming over three quarters of the two million are from other countries; not UK

The petition requesting a re-referendum is one thing (that won't achieve anything); a more effective strategy may be a petition to ask the government not to invoke Article 50, thereby remaining in the EU.

Certainly, it would make sense to wait until after a general election is held and for the parties to run on very clear platforms, either IN (with whatever further concessions might be negotiable) or OUT. That way, the public essentially gets a second referendum on the issue.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Certainly, it would make sense to wait until after a general election is held and for the parties to run on very clear platforms, either IN (with whatever further concessions might be negotiable) or OUT. That way, the public essentially gets a second referendum on the issue.

We can't wait that long and effectively hold the World economy to ransom. That would be like one of a married couple saying "I'm going to divorce you next year."

I have no faith in Conservative or Labour at this point in time. Corbyn must go. Absolutely must go! I've never liked him and he's a freakin' snake. I actually view him as worse than Cameron.

Had a horrendous arguement on facebook last night with someone (could name name's but it wouldn't be prudent) who is a rep of one of the big four unions who were for Leave. He was previously a union advisor to Corbyn's election team and one of the activists who campaigne in the media for him to be elected party leader. I asked pointed questions that he refused to answer. He wanted the four unions to take full credit for the success of the leave vote. I gradually pulled apart his views and challenged him over and over.

Turns out the prick is a national socialist. If there's anything I hate more than a fascist, it's the national socialists/ far left. Fascists are obvious and proud of what they stand for. The far left are sneaky low lifes who pretend they're all about protecting the rights of the working man and want to bring down the banking system. One of the classic head on battles I had with them was when they began an illegal picket line at my works. I drove through the picket line on my way to a union meeting and they tried to trash my car, literally climbing onto the bonnet and blocking my windscreen.

I inherited my dad's temper, so have an exceptionally long fuse, but when it goes.... So that debarcle ended with me swinging the steering wheel lock round my head threatening to take the lot of them out.

If last night had been a face to face encounter, I'd be in a cell now.

So, just let me 'immobilise' a few people (if only I had the means) and let's go again. When the far right and the far left have combined, colluded and brought about this change to my country, I have every right to mad as hell and vengeful.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Chuff
	Yup, there has been a hilarious amount of over-reacting that I have seen on social media ,as though the apocalypse has arrived and the four horsemen are now riding throughout the lands. The desire for a re-vote also has me in stitches. We asked for a referendum, we got one, and now that people don't like the result they want to hold it again and impose conditions that sway the vote to one side? Yeah, that's democracy alright.

I never asked for a referendum. That was requested by UKIP and the Conservative right.

What astounds me is the number of Leave voters who have said they never expected Cameron to resign and they wish none of this was happening. These are the people who take more consideration of who to vote for on the X Factor than in politics.


So with the Tories a mess...and my absolute worst case scenario with them is that they select Priti Patel...Labour are hot in their heels is the race to see which party can implode first...

	Quote:
	Shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn has been sacked from the shadow cabinet by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. The Labour leader is facing a no confidence vote over his "lacklustre" campaign for a remain vote.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36632539

As a LibDem, under normal circumstances, this would all be hilarious. I'm not laughing.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	as all 12 million would have voted for remain, it is an overwhelming victory after all.

No, I'm sure 6 million of them blamed the weather on the EU, so the result of the vote is still valid.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What astounds me is the number of Leave voters who have said they never expected Cameron to resign and they wish none of this was happening.

How many, exactly? Has it occurred to you that those people making this claim might not actually be telling the truth?

And anyway, even if they are, what of it? They must be a little hard of thinking if they really voted for something they didn't want to happen, so why should we be in the slightest bit interested in what they're saying now?

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:
	The petition requesting a re-referendum is one thing (that won't achieve anything); a more effective strategy may be a petition to ask the government not to invoke Article 50, thereby remaining in the EU. Certainly, it would make sense to wait until after a general election is held and for the parties to run on very clear platforms, either IN (with whatever further concessions might be negotiable) or OUT. That way, the public essentially gets a second referendum on the issue.

Like that would ever happen, folk need to accept terms and conditions.

Reaction to demands for UK to quit the EU as soon as possible.

Those of you who suggested they will be in no hurry to separate from the EU, you were spot on.

*Prominent Leave campaigner and cabinet minister Theresa Villiers, writing in the Observer, dismissed the calls. “There is no need to plunge into tabling article 50 now, whatever [European commission president] Mr Juncker may want,” she writes, referring to the trigger for formal Brexit negotiations. “The period of informal negotiation prior to an article 50 process will be crucial and should not be rushed.”*

*Boris Johnson, the favourite to succeed Cameron, has also said there is no need to hurry triggering the formal process, a move he believes would limit the UK’s room for manoeuvre.*


I think the Lib Dems will now rise and become prominent if they use a clear voice during this time of political uncertainty. Especially if they answer the public's growing calls to reconnect with Europe.

*Tim Farron has pledged to fight the next general election on a platform of taking the UK back into Europe. The Liberal Democrat leader said: “The British people deserve the chance not to be stuck with the appalling consequences of a Leave campaign that stoked that anger with the lies of [Nigel] Farage, Johnson and [Michael] Gove.”*

Interesting times ahead, eh?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	No, I'm sure 6 million of them blamed the weather on the EU, so the result of the vote is still valid.

Admit it: you really like the result of the vote!

I have to say I started to believe it could mean something positive for the EU. As I don't really believe that Marine Le Pen will be able to do in France what Farage did in UK (perhaps despite all the evidence I somehow miraculously retained my positive impression about the French electorate) I think we will see something good coming out of it, after all.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Admit it: you really like the result of the vote!

I like the clarity. I like the 52%. It happens to be that way, but the clarity of the vote the other way around would please me to.
It goes without saying that the UK takes care of its interests when leaving, which means to make it as slow as possible. The EU has interests too and frankly, has nothing to loose anymore:
- Either the reverse psychology strategy works and the Brits vote clearly for parties campaigning for a remain in the next general elections which stops the activation of §50 de facto;
- Or the EU gets eventually outraged by the UK's slowness strategy and play the escalation strategy in order to appear strong towards other countries with nationalistic temptations. I guarantee you that people around me are all for being plain cruel to the UK, so there are elections to be won in Europe with UK bashing in the coming years.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	- Either the reverse psychology strategy works and the Brits vote clearly for parties campaigning for a remain in the next general elections which stops the activation of §50 de facto; .

Slim chances, I suppose.

	Quote:	Faltrad
	I like the clarity. I like the 52%. It happens to be that way, but the clarity of the vote the other way around would please me to. It goes without saying that the UK takes care of its interests when leaving, which means to make it as slow as possible. The EU has interests too and frankly, has nothing to loose anymore: .

I think it already took care of its interests during the time spent in EU. For sure, they also ended up with some unpleasant things, like everyone else in this union, but mainly they catered for their interests quite well, while they were there.

	Quote:	Faltrad
	- Or the EU gets eventually outraged by the UK's slowness strategy and play the escalation strategy in order to appear strong towards other countries with nationalistic temptations.

We will see.

[CathHarmony]

	Quote:
	He's not stupid at all, that's the problem. He's just happens to be in a messy-haired, badly-suited, bike-riding package who fools us into thinking otherwise. I can't decide if he's his PR department's worst nightmare or their collective wet-dream. He either doesn't give a flying whatever what everyone thinks of him - or he knows exactly what image he portrays because it's all on purpose. Judi Dench is a national treasure, Boris Johnson is a shark: he's not had to evolve because he was born to be a politician. Look at his dad. They're the same (other than his Dad wanted to stay in): Eton-educated; super-privileged, arrogant white men of a certain age who have always had their own way and don't see why that should change in the near future. Yes, he can seem endearingly clownish. Yes he seems unthreatening. Yes, he's a bloody good host in entertainment programmes - but I think that's all smoke and mirrors. He doesn't want us to see how the trick is done - not yet, anyway.

Hes demonstrated he can 'run' a city like London, I think its a safe bet people will infer that he'll be able to run a country.

It looks like running the leave campaign was calculated, low risk, high win for him (Cameron would resign and he would have a chance at PM) if we voted out. But he could have run for PM without doing this couldnt he?

May, why would you vote for someone in charge of immigration issues who has demonstrated she has done nothing to solve these.

'The Home Secretary is a senior member of the Government who has overall responsibility for crime policy, counter-terrorism, immigration and passports. '

Boris 2016, get used to it already

Labour are imploding today. Half the shadow cabinet is due to resign, Hilary Benn has been sacked. The party is almost split in two. I saw this happening to the Conservatives, never to Labour. It's a blood bath.

UKIP are just going to be hoovering up these votes.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Labour are imploding today. Half the shadow cabinet is due to resign, Hilary Benn has been sacked. The party is almost split in two. I saw this happening to the Conservatives, never to Labour. It's a blood bath. UKIP are just going to be hoovering up these votes.

Links for this news.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36632539

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36632956

Clean brooms sweeping all round then by the looks of it.

It'll be hilarious when Corbyn gets ousted, they hold another leadership contest and he gets voted back in.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It'll be hilarious when Corbyn gets ousted, they hold another leadership contest and he gets voted back in.

And the other half of the party goes off and forms a new party. Then we can really have old Labour and new Labour.

[Chuff]

Andrew Marr is on, BBC, get watching.

[st2lemans]

From an Italian friendö

"Referendum con 2 caselle: remain o leave. Due milioni di inglesi vogliono rivotare perchè non hanno capito bene la domanda��������"

Referendum with two choices, remain or leave.

Two million Brits want to re-vote because they didn't understand the question well enough.

Tom

[st2lemans]

Tom