The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Quote: Jim2007 Well the rebate is already gone as of the next budget period regardless of whether the U.K. revokes A50 or not. Got a link for that? The proposed/budgeted €12bln from the UK for 2020 is roughly the same as this year.

Still waiting.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	"Narrow preconceptions"? Oh right, have it your way: the Tory party is packed full of doughty yeomen of the soil and mill who have made their way to the top by the sweat of their brow and sheer determination. Happy now?

I think in many cases people are successful by being lucky but more importantly being persistent, as your chance of luck increases the more times you try. No doubt will say that it's the upbringing that gives the confidence to be persistent!
Terribly intelligent well educated people have a sense of entitlement & that is often the reason they fail to achieve very much in life.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think in many cases people are successful by being lucky but more importantly being persistent, as your chance of luck increases the more times you try. No doubt will say that it's the upbringing that gives the confidence to be persistent! Terribly intelligent well educated people have a sense of entitlement & that is often the reason they fail to achieve very much in life.

I suspect that being born into a family with lots of connections and an existing base of wealth, along with having the kind of education which further improves one's chances of making good connections has as much to do with "making it" as any kind of persistence.

It's interesting how many of my posh friends were able to take creative risks because they had a network to fall back on. That isn't available to most people, which is why lower middle and working class kids are always encouraged to go for modest, low-paying jobs with a decent chance of job security, rather than swanning off and opening diving schools in the Seychelles or selling scented candles in Camden.

In other words: the Tory narrative of "hard work and persistence" is bullshit unless one has the background to pull it off.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I suspect that being born into a family with lots of connections and an existing base of wealth, along with having the kind of education which further improves one's chances of making good connections has as much to do with "making it" as any kind of persistence. It's interesting how many of my posh friends were able to take creative risks because they had a network to fall back on. That isn't available to most people, which is why lower middle and working class kids are always encouraged to go for modest, low-paying jobs with a decent chance of job security, rather than swanning off and opening diving schools in the Seychelles or selling scented candles in Camden. In other words: the Tory narrative of "hard work and persistence" is bullshit unless one has the background to pull it off.

Have you ever tried to set up any sort of business, it's much harder than a job as you will be likely working 15 hours a day 7 days a week.

	Quote:
	I suspect that being born into a family with lots of connections and an existing base of wealth, along with having the kind of education which further improves one's chances of making good connections has as much to do with "making it" as any kind of persistence. It's interesting how many of my posh friends were able to take creative risks because they had a network to fall back on. That isn't available to most people, which is why lower middle and working class kids are always encouraged to go for modest, low-paying jobs with a decent chance of job security, rather than swanning off and opening diving schools in the Seychelles or selling scented candles in Camden. In other words: the Tory narrative of "hard work and persistence" is bullshit unless one has the background to pull it off.

This. Art History at St Andrews must be full of students who don't need to work but fancy swanning about in auction houses. Don't get me started on the system of unpaid internships in expensive cities. You need one hell of a support system to be able to do that.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think in many cases people are successful by being lucky but more importantly being persistent, as your chance of luck increases the more times you try. No doubt will say that it's the upbringing that gives the confidence to be persistent! Terribly intelligent well educated people have a sense of entitlement & that is often the reason they fail to achieve very much in life.

Interesting take on education you have there seeing as Toby Young’s dad, the Baron Michael Young seemed to think education important enough to use his privileged background and influence to get his dumbo offspring into Trinity College. How lucky he must have felt.

Not much beats having toff rellies to steer your luck for you, right?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Have you ever tried to set up any sort of business, it's much harder than a job as you will be likely working 15 hours a day 7 days a week.

More to the point, it's a risk which most people without that big fat cushion underneath them cannot afford to take.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Interesting take on education you have there seeing as Toby Young’s dad, the Baron Michael Young seemed to think education important enough to use his privileged background and influence to get his dumbo offspring into Trinity College. How lucky he must have felt. Not much beats having toff rellies to steer your luck for you, right?

Did the dumbo offspring get a degree from Trinity?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Did the dumbo offspring get a degree from Trinity?

I’d be surprised if he didn’t. I’m sure the Baron ensured those wheels were also sufficiently greased.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	More to the point, it's a risk which most people without that big fat cushion underneath them cannot afford to take.

I think you have a point, however it's risk aversion rather than anything else. Many people think the stock market is too risky. Personally stock market returns over the last 10 years exceed earnings from over 36 years work.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you have a point, however it's risk aversion rather than anything else. Many people think the stock market is too risky. Personally stock market returns over the last 10 years exceed earnings from over 36 years work.

Yeah, people without a safety net tend to be averse to falling onto concrete. Strange, that, isn't it?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I’d be surprised if he didn’t. I’m sure the Baron ensured those wheels were also sufficiently greased.

I don't believe he could have any influence of their degree form Trinity.
His offspring were not as dumb as you think, intrigued to know the A level results.

I do know a Canadian who got accepted by Girton due to a connection, however he did not complete the first year as he could not cut it.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Yeah, people without a safety net tend to be averse to falling onto concrete. Strange, that, isn't it?

Plenty of people who have been bankrupt go on to have very successful business's. Conviction that you will succeed in the end is the way to success.

Wealth rarely lasts for 3 generations, the second generation are lazy good for nothings who waste all of the money.

Generally self made wealthy people have always lived below their means, this gave them the ability to be wealthy.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Plenty of people who have been bankrupt go on to have very successful business's. Conviction that you will succeed in the end is the way to success.

Also, knowing lots of people with influence, having a known name, being able to rely on Roger from the rowing club. It's easy to have conviction of future success when one is swimming in social capital.

	Quote:
	Generally self made wealthy people have always lived below their means, this gave them the ability to be wealthy.

Again, it's easy to slum it for a bit if you know you won't always have to. I have known plenty of people who have taken the risk and lived in self-imposed poverty for a while because they knew they had a way out of it. It isn't so easy when there's no clear route out of it.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Also, knowing lots of people with influence, having a known name, being able to rely on Roger from the rowing club. It's easy to have conviction of future success when one is swimming in social capital. Again, it's easy to slum it for a bit if you know you won't always have to. I have known plenty of people who have taken the risk and lived in self-imposed poverty for a while because they knew they had a way out of it. It isn't so easy when there's no clear route out of it.

I think you underestimate the skills required to set up a successful business, you just need to watch the 'Apprentice' to see how totally incompetent most people are, many of those people have quite good jobs.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	In other words: the Tory narrative of "hard work and persistence" is bullshit unless one has the background to pull it off.

Hard work and persistence are actually key ingredients of success in any possible field of work. Don't be misled by it being used as a political slogan.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you underestimate the skills required to set up a successful business, you just need to watch the 'Apprentice' to see how totally incompetent most people are, many of those people have quite good jobs.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Are you deliberately missing the point?

No, not at all, are you?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you underestimate the skills required to set up a successful business, you just need to watch the 'Apprentice' to see how totally incompetent most people are, many of those people have quite good jobs.

Does anyone actually still believe that the Apprentice is real, never mind count it as a barometer for business people?