The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Also, knowing lots of people with influence, having a known name, being able to rely on Roger from the rowing club. It's easy to have conviction of future success when one is swimming in social capital. Again, it's easy to slum it for a bit if you know you won't always have to. I have known plenty of people who have taken the risk and lived in self-imposed poverty for a while because they knew they had a way out of it. It isn't so easy when there's no clear route out of it.

I think you underestimate the skills required to set up a successful business, you just need to watch the 'Apprentice' to see how totally incompetent most people are, many of those people have quite good jobs.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	In other words: the Tory narrative of "hard work and persistence" is bullshit unless one has the background to pull it off.

Hard work and persistence are actually key ingredients of success in any possible field of work. Don't be misled by it being used as a political slogan.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you underestimate the skills required to set up a successful business, you just need to watch the 'Apprentice' to see how totally incompetent most people are, many of those people have quite good jobs.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Are you deliberately missing the point?

No, not at all, are you?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you underestimate the skills required to set up a successful business, you just need to watch the 'Apprentice' to see how totally incompetent most people are, many of those people have quite good jobs.

Does anyone actually still believe that the Apprentice is real, never mind count it as a barometer for business people?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Does anyone actually still believe that the Apprentice is real, never mind count it as a barometer for business people?

I would love to see you & DB in a series & see how far you would get.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I would love to see you & DB in a series & see how far you would get.

I wouldn't have time to piss about on a television show. Some of us have work to do.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I would love to see you & DB in a series & see how far you would get.

BBC wouldn’t be interested because I don’t own enough power suits or false eye-lashes. And I don’t know enough wanky and pointless business-speak.

You really believe it’s a real business programme don’t you?

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Hard work and persistence are actually key ingredients of success in any possible field of work. Don't be misled by it being used as a political slogan.

Of course, but very, very few people become rich by hard work and persistence alone. Existing wealth, a good name and a solid network of influential people are also necessary - and how many people have access to privileges like these?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	No, not at all, are you?

Do you honestly think that everyone starts out on an equal footing? That family background, connections, wealth etc do not factor in at all?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	BBC wouldn’t be interested because I don’t own enough power suits or false eye-lashes. And I don’t know enough wanky and pointless business-speak. You really believe it’s a real business programme don’t you?

Since the current format, he has invested in at least 1 of the candidates in each series. I would like to see the company accounts of those companies

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Do you honestly think that everyone starts out on an equal footing? That family background, connections, wealth etc do not factor in at all?

People are not born equal, some are intelligent, good looking, life is far more about luck. I certainly would not have wanted any member of my family invest in my business, being beholden to family is the last thing an entrepreneur wants.
If you want to be beholden to someone work for them.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	People are not born equal, some are intelligent, good looking, life is far more about luck. I certainly would not have wanted any member of my family invest in my business, being beholden to family is the last thing an entrepreneur wants. If you want to be beholden to someone work for them.

It isn't necessary to have family directly invest in an enterprise in order to benefit from the privilege of being born into the right family. If a minor royal were to set up as a greengrocer with nothing more than a loan from the bank, he would immediately have an advantage over some random bloke from Norfolk, just by virtue of his surname.

That's how the class system works, and where this discussion began.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Of course, but very, very few people become rich by hard work and persistence alone. Existing wealth, a good name and a solid network of influential people are also necessary - and how many people have access to privileges like these?

A good name you build yourself. The other two help to get you started but not to reach the top.
Instead, talent factor is much more important.

	Quote:
	It isn't necessary to have family directly invest in an enterprise in order to benefit from the privilege of being born into the right family. If a minor royal were to set up as a greengrocer with nothing more than a loan from the bank, he would immediately have an advantage over some random bloke from Norfolk, just by virtue of his surname. That's how the class system works, and where this discussion began.

Luck and privilege seem to go hand in hand.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	A good name you build yourself. The other two help to get you started but not to reach the top. Instead, talent factor is much more important.

	Quote:
	It isn't necessary to have family directly invest in an enterprise in order to benefit from the privilege of being born into the right family. If a minor royal were to set up as a greengrocer with nothing more than a loan from the bank, he would immediately have an advantage over some random bloke from Norfolk, just by virtue of his surname. That's how the class system works, and where this discussion began.

Prince Edward set up Ardent Productions, it lost money every year from wiki

"In 1993, Edward formed the television production company Ardent Productions.[16] Ardent was involved in the production of a number of documentaries and dramas,[17] but Edward was accused in the media of using his royal connections for financial gain,[18] and the company was referred to by some industry insiders as "a sad joke" due to a perceived lack of professionalism in its operations. Andy Beckett, writing in The Guardian, opined that "to watch Ardent's few dozen hours of broadcast output is to enter a strange kingdom where every man in Britain still wears a tie, where pieces to camera are done in cricket jumpers, where people clasp their hands behind their backs like guardsmen. Commercial breaks are filled with army recruiting advertisements".[19]

Ardent's productions were somewhat better received in the United States[20] and a documentary Edward made about his grand-uncle, Edward VIII (the late Duke of Windsor) in 1996,[17] sold well worldwide.[21] Nonetheless, the company reported losses every year it operated save one when Edward did not draw a salary.[16] An Ardent two-man film crew was alleged to have invaded the privacy of his nephew Prince William in September 2001, when he was studying at the University of St Andrews, against industry guidelines regarding the privacy of members of the royal family;[22] William's father, Charles, Prince of Wales, was reportedly angered by the incident.[23] In March 2002, Edward announced that he would step down as production director and joint managing director of Ardent[16] to concentrate on his public duties and to support the Queen during her Golden Jubilee year. Ardent Productions was voluntarily dissolved in June 2009, with assets reduced to just £40.[24]"

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Prince Edward set up Ardent Productions, it lost money every year from wiki "In 1993, Edward formed the television production company Ardent Productions.[16] Ardent was involved in the production of a number of documentaries and dramas,[17] but Edward was accused in the media of using his royal connections for financial gain,[18] and the company was referred to by some industry insiders as "a sad joke" due to a perceived lack of professionalism in its operations. Andy Beckett, writing in The Guardian, opined that "to watch Ardent's few dozen hours of broadcast output is to enter a strange kingdom where every man in Britain still wears a tie, where pieces to camera are done in cricket jumpers, where people clasp their hands behind their backs like guardsmen. Commercial breaks are filled with army recruiting advertisements".[19] Ardent's productions were somewhat better received in the United States[20] and a documentary Edward made about his grand-uncle, Edward VIII (the late Duke of Windsor) in 1996,[17] sold well worldwide.[21] Nonetheless, the company reported losses every year it operated save one when Edward did not draw a salary.[16] An Ardent two-man film crew was alleged to have invaded the privacy of his nephew Prince William in September 2001, when he was studying at the University of St Andrews, against industry guidelines regarding the privacy of members of the royal family;[22] William's father, Charles, Prince of Wales, was reportedly angered by the incident.[23] In March 2002, Edward announced that he would step down as production director and joint managing director of Ardent[16] to concentrate on his public duties and to support the Queen during her Golden Jubilee year. Ardent Productions was voluntarily dissolved in June 2009, with assets reduced to just £40.[24]"

So he's living in a council house in Swindon now and working at the local B&Q?

See my point?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	So he's living in a council house in Swindon now and working at the local B&Q? See my point?

Ardent lost it's investors £2,200,000.
Zero success because zero talent & too much money with no hunger.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	So he's living in a council house in Swindon now and working at the local B&Q? See my point?

No, the point is that you will fail if you don't work hard, are not persistent and have no talent - no matter where you come from.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	No, the point is that you will fail if you don't work hard, are not persistent and have no talent - no matter where you come from.

The difference is what happens to you if you do fail. THAT is the point. Luck is when your business goes tits up but your daddy absorbs the impact and you can keep the Ferrari and the bling, and blithely move on to your next spiffy idea for a business.

No rich daddy and you are up to your neck in brown and smelly reality.