The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	John William
	Hooray - yet another defeat for Boris, as the governments 2nd attempt to give MP's a meaningful vote on his Brexit deal on Monday is rejected by Speaker John Bercow.

That could also mean 1 step closer to no deal.

[John William]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	That could also mean 1 step closer to no deal.

I for one will be happy to see Boris go to jail as a consequence of that.
Revocation of Article 50 here we come !!

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I don't think people who study to become Solicitors or Barristers are the people who don't repay their student loans & flip burgers as they can get a job. Of course you know best

There's a fair whack of doctors who are struggling to pay back their student loans; consequently there are fewer people going into medicine and the NHS is recruiting from abroad which, on topic, pisses off the Brexiteers.

Or are you suggesting that doctors do their training in the School of Hard Knocks and University of Life?

Your theory of education not being relevant and a "waste of money" is only true for a very small niche of people, most of whom have the means and money through family connections to get that far. So basically, it's a pointless argument.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	There's a fair whack of doctors who are struggling to pay back their student loans; consequently there are fewer people going into medicine and the NHS is recruiting from abroad which, on topic, pisses off the Brexiteers. Or are you suggesting that doctors do their training in the School of Hard Knocks and University of Life? Your theory of education not being relevant and a "waste of money" is only true for a very small niche of people, most of whom have the means and money through family connections to get that far. So basically, it's a pointless argument.

Do they struggle to pay back their loan, or fail to do so over their working life? I doubt many medical Dr's have got jobs flipping burgers.
Salaries are ultimately based on supply & demand. If the supply dries up due to BREXIT then salaries will have to rise.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Do they struggle to pay back their loan, or fail to do so over their working life? I doubt many medical Dr's have got jobs flipping burgers. Salaries are ultimately based on supply & demand. If the supply dries up due to BREXIT then salaries will have to rise.

What's your obsession with "flipping burgers"? Seems a bit of a festering point with you.

Does it matter whether they struggle to pay it back or don't manage to pay it back? It's creating a two-tier system where only the rich will be able to study or they make up the gap with overseas workers.

The NHS isn't known for upping salaries to attract doctors, is it? More likely to cut staff and budgets.

[22 yards]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	The NHS isn't known for upping salaries to attract doctors, is it? More likely to cut staff and budgets.

But if FMF's third form economics textbook is correct and medical practitioners' salaries were to increase, yay!!!! Yet another benefit of Brexit: increased costs to the NHS and an inevitable increase in taxes to fund them.

But then again, £350 million per week should plug the gap.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	John William
	I for one will be happy to see Boris go to jail as a consequence of that. Revocation of Article 50 here we come !!

How? Who other than the PM can do that? Given that no party has an absolute majority he probably can't be replaced quickly either, assuming that's even legally possible.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	What's your obsession with "flipping burgers"? Seems a bit of a festering point with you. Does it matter whether they struggle to pay it back or don't manage to pay it back? It's creating a two-tier system where only the rich will be able to study or they make up the gap with overseas workers. The NHS isn't known for upping salaries to attract doctors, is it? More likely to cut staff and budgets.

I have no intention of a 2 tier system, just that loans are given out where there is a 50% chance of repayment. I can see less philosophy & media studies courses.

Whilst allowing less intelligent members of the population to go to University was a noble idea, however if they cant pick a subject that has a 51% chance of giving them a higher paying job, enough to repay their student debts, then taxpayers money is being wasted.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	How? Who other than the PM can do that? Given that no party has an absolute majority he probably can't be replaced quickly either, assuming that's even legally possible.

In accordance with the Supreme Court in the famous Mill case, an act of parliament and it can define who ever must inform the EU.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	In accordance with the Supreme Court in the famous Mill case, an act of parliament and it can define who ever must inform the EU.

An act of parliament must be approved by HRM, no?
Don't you need the PM to present it to her for that to happen?

ETA:
And doesn't HRM by custom do as advised by the PM? So what if he BoJo did presented it and advised to refuse that law?

[curley]

	Quote:	22 yards
	Far better for you, maybe. But far better for Jane next door to go to uni, because she's bright, motivated and cut out to become a lawyer. Or would you prefer everyone to conform to the lowest common denominator so that the least academically gifted can feel better about themselves? And again, could you stop this pointless "discussion" now? It is about as far off topic as is possible to get.

Hasn't gone to uni - for as long as possible - already become today's lowest common denominator?
The only thing they can be different from each other is by the amount of bachelor's degrees?

[Elu]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Whilst allowing less intelligent members of the population to go to University was a noble idea, however if they cant pick a subject that has a 51% chance of giving them a higher paying job, enough to repay their student debts, then taxpayers money is being wasted.

Or they had to go way to deep into dept for their studies. If I had a 200k dept after my degree, I'd be paying them back for the next 10-15 years...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Elu
	Or they had to go way to deep into dept for their studies. If I had a 200k dept after my degree, I'd be paying them back for the next 10-15 years...

The max possible tuition & maintenance loan a year in London being £20,992 or £18,198 outside London. Average debt being around £50,000

Where does your figure of £200,000 come from. Repayments if any are based on earnings over the next 30 years.

[John William]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	How? Who other than the PM can do that? Given that no party has an absolute majority he probably can't be replaced quickly either, assuming that's even legally possible.

This PM is building up a nice track record for lies and misleading the people, the smoke and mirrors
shenanigans over his request for an extension to the EU ( unsigned ) is but another example of his
mischievous behaviour.

Boris is unworthy of the office of PM and should resign now.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	John William
	Hooray - yet another defeat for Boris, as the governments 2nd attempt to give MP's a meaningful vote on his Brexit deal on Monday is rejected by Speaker John Bercow.

So do the have a lot of meaningless votes in the British parliament?

Perhaps someone could send a note to Tusk, explain that the revoke A50 was not a meaningful vote as we now understand it, so could he just ignore it....

[22 yards]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So do the have a lot of meaningless votes in the British parliament?

They do, in a way. On the subject of Brexit, there have been several "indicative" (non-binding) votes, especially earlier this year around the originally scheduled departure date. "Meaningful" votes are binding.

Some would suggest that not much of what Parliament does these days is meaningful.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Under Boris's deal, Northern Ireland businesses will have to fill out customs declarations to send goods to the rest of the UK.

Source

Farce...

[Troublawesome]

My guess? His first vote might pass but then on the second one he'll lose and amendments will be voted in for a 2nd referendum or customs union.

Then he'll resign by end of the week and call a GE. The shortest lived and most useless PM in Uk history. After he failed to leave, the Brexit Party will get a 15% and destroy the chances of a Tory goverment in the foreseeable future.

Labour will also do badly I guess so the question is how high will Lib Dems go, will they be the vote breaker or stay small enough to not make a difference?

A coalition of Tories and Brexit party would be the only way for a governing coalition but if the Tories do that they'd alienate a big part of their electorate. In a sense they'll have failed on all fronts.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	An act of parliament must be approved by HRM, no? Don't you need the PM to present it to her for that to happen? ETA: And doesn't HRM by custom do as advised by the PM? So what if he BoJo did presented it and advised to refuse that law?

It’s a sovereign parliament not a sovereign government, once a bill passes all stages it will receive Royal Assent. Were BJ to attempt to get the Queen to refuse Assent, he would be in contempt of parliament and even BJ is not stupid enough to give his opponents that hind of opportunity.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	Source Farce...

Ever wonder why there is no massive out cry from Northern Irish businesses???

It is because they are going to have to go through the process in any case. Their manufacturing processes involved shipping materials and WIP over the NI border and their fastest and cheapest route to market is Dublin to Holyhead. Belfast to Dublin is about an hour and 45 minutes, you don’t go north into Scotland to get to London....