The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Troublawesome]

Yeah yeah, thanks for the patronising we all know the crappy UK system.

But we all also know people usually vote for the leader and not the party. Or are you telling me Farage got 30.52% because people voted for the excellent Brexit Party representatives? Bollocks.When he left UKIP it went back to 0% so it they voted for representatives that wouldn't happen.

All elections are won by those who chant 'ohh Jeremy Corbyn' or those who believe the lies on a bus. EU elections are leader-centric and always were.

Which is why Theresa May lost her majority and why Johnson is mimicking Trump on every TV appearance.

But yes, we all agree your system is really really bad as the PM can be any random dude that no one voted for. If Johnson quits the Tories can single handedly decide who is going to represent their country in the global stage and who holds the nukes without consulting the people.

That's despicable.

	Quote:	bigblue2
	its quite scary just how little grasp people have of the uk parliament system, its really no wonder the country is in such a mess, its incredibly sad people keep posting we vote for the prime minister.

Although, having said that, maybe some would not vote for a party purely because XYZ is the leader. There seems to be no shortage of people who are lifelong Labour supporters, for example, who won't vote Labour in a GE as long as Corbyn is party leader so I guess it plays a part in some way.

I wouldn't have voted Tory if BJ had been leader at the time, regardless of who the local MP is.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I wouldn't have voted Tory if BJ had been leader at the time, regardless of who the local MP is.

Have you ever voted Tory in the past?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Have you ever voted Tory in the past?

I can't vote now anyway, nor is it relevant in this case. It was to demonstrate a point that people may be influenced by the choice of leader at the top of the party before they mark their ballot paper.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I can't vote now anyway, nor is it relevant, in this case. It was to demonstrate a point that people may be influenced by the choice of leader at the top of the party before they mark their ballot paper.

My question was in the past, I think it it relevant as I suspect you would never vote for them, based on your posts. I am sure you never voted for Mrs Thatcher as I did.
For disclosure I have only voted Tory, but would have voted for Tony Blair had I been eligible to vote at the second election he won.

[gaburko]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	its quite scary just how little grasp people have of the uk parliament system, its really no wonder the country is in such a mess, its incredibly sad people keep posting we vote for the prime minister.

That's not accurate on at least two fronts:
1. I hope you realize that on EF you have at least a handful of people who are not necessarily English citizens hence they are not exactly required to know the intricacies of the outdated English political system.
2. More importantly, just like in many other countries, you only THEORETICALLY don't vote for the party leader, but essentially you do. In that sense, the term was handed to the Tories when David Cameron was the party leader. Peoples' vote was ignored once when the PM role was passed on to the incompetent, but stubborn May and once again when it was passed to the incompetent and arrogant BJ.

There are many insights out of this and none of them paint England in a nice way. Time for massive changes, but in the meantime, oh, I love the Brexit show so much can't get enough of it!

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And your practical solution would be what? To put it into perspective, it is coming up on 100 years since the Anglo-Irish Treaty and they are still putting privates acts of parliament through the house in London and Dublin trying to clear things up and decisions made in the Irish/UK Supreme Courts can still have impacts in both jurisdictions, but at least in those situations both countries have a common legal system.... I very much doubt there is a legal brain alive that could come up with a way to make a clean break on a body of law that is being interpreted in 28 countries.

There is no solution.

Which is why the concept of Brexit was completely stupid. The idea that was sold that UK could make a clean break from the EU was always impossible.

If the UK finally makes some trade deal with the EU then there will be aspects that will be within the scope of the ECJ for evermore; so much for escaping from ECJ rulings

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	My question was in the past, I think it it relevant as I suspect you would never vote for them, based on your posts. I am sure you never voted for Mrs Thatcher as I did.

But your comment is irrelevant Predictable, but nonetheless irrelevant.

The only value in answering your question is so you can purposely derail the point.

Fact remains that people may or may not allow the leader of a party to influence their overall choice at the ballot box, regardless of who their particular MP may be.

	Quote:	gaburko
	That's not accurate on at least two fronts: 1. I hope you realize that on EF you have at least a handful of people who are not necessarily English citizens hence they are not exactly required to know the intricacies of the outdated English political system. 2. More importantly, just like in many other countries, you only THEORETICALLY don't vote for the party leader, but essentially you do. In that sense, the term was handed to the Tories when David Cameron was the party leader. Peoples' vote was ignored once when the PM role was passed on to the incompetent, but stubborn May and once again when it was passed to the incompetent and arrogant BJ. There are many insights out of this and none of them pain England in a nice way. Time for massive changes, but in the meantime, oh, I love the Brexit show so much can't get enough of it!

The problem with the United Kingdom, unlike most of the rest of Europe, is that we haven't had a proper, comprehensive regime change for a few centuries. It's painful, but the long term effects are pretty good in most cases.

We need a good old revolution, abolish the monarchy, titles, all that crap, and build a proper group of free, democratic, independent nations from scratch, with actual constitutions, not all this "precedence" crap.

Long Live the Republic!

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	its quite scary just how little grasp people have of the uk parliament system, its really no wonder the country is in such a mess, its incredibly sad people keep posting we vote for the prime minister.

How often did it happen that the leader of the biggest party did not become prime minister?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	The problem with the United Kingdom, unlike most of the rest of Europe, is that we haven't had a proper, comprehensive regime change for a few centuries. It's painful, but the long term effects are pretty good in most cases. We need a good old revolution, abolish the monarchy, titles, all that crap, and build a proper group of free, democratic, independent nations from scratch, with actual constitutions, not all this "precedence" crap. Long Live the Republic!

That will happen if we don't leave

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	How often did it happen that the leader of the biggest party did not become prime minister?

The party with the most individual votes for candidates or the party who won the most seats?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The party with the most individual votes for candidates or the party who won the most seats?

Most seats

[fatmanfilms]

Back on topic
Barnier warns it's simple Johnson's deal or No deal

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-latest-update

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	The problem with the United Kingdom, unlike most of the rest of Europe, is that we haven't had a proper, comprehensive regime change for a few centuries. It's painful, but the long term effects are pretty good in most cases. We need a good old revolution, abolish the monarchy, titles, all that crap, and build a proper group of free, democratic, independent nations from scratch, with actual constitutions, not all this "precedence" crap. Long Live the Republic!

After doing some research Art 61 'Lawful Rebellion' of the Magna Carta should be invoked.
https://medium.com/@NickAyton/it-is-...on-3eadd05b0aa

[marton]

	Quote:
	The problem with the United Kingdom, unlike most of the rest of Europe, is that we haven't had a proper, comprehensive regime change for a few centuries. It's painful, but the long term effects are pretty good in most cases. We need a good old revolution, abolish the monarchy, titles, all that crap, and build a proper group of free, democratic, independent nations from scratch, with actual constitutions, not all this "precedence" crap. Long Live the Republic!

I am sure BJ can call his mate Spanky and get the UK adopted as a US state
All problems solved, ready-made Constitution to use, no monarchy and a running democracy; also no need for a new trade deal.

[Ato]

	Quote:	marton
	I am sure BJ can call his mate Spanky and get the UK adopted as a US state All problems solved, ready-made Constitution to use, no monarchy and a running democracy; also no need for a new trade deal.

When that happens the Republic will start collectively singing "Stuck in the Middle with you"

[dandi]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Back on topic Barnier warns it's simple Johnson's deal or No deal https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-latest-update

We heard that before with May's deal...

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Back on topic Barnier warns it's simple Johnson's deal or No deal https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-latest-update

He/the EU said that about May's deal, too.

It's déjà-vu all over again.

ETA: Ah, dandi got there before me.

	Quote:	gaburko
	... English citizens...

What would they look like, then?