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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #23841  
Old 25.10.2019, 22:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No one in the world is doing more to battle tax evasion and corporate fraud than the EU.
Source required
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  #23842  
Old 25.10.2019, 22:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No one in the world is doing more to battle tax evasion and corporate fraud than the EU......
The Americans are not too bad at that either. Preferably in other countries
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  #23843  
Old 26.10.2019, 07:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Source required
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...dance-package/

One wonders why certain elements seem hell bent on getting out of the EU so quickly...Oh wait...

"The member states have to implement the directive in their national law by 1 January 2020."
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  #23844  
Old 26.10.2019, 08:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Could you please provide a link to the empirical evidence for your assertion (bearing in mind that the ballot was secret)?
Feel free to provide evidence disproving what I said. I am not lying, and therefore I don’t need to waste my time trying to prove to someone anonymous on the internet who unlikely wants to be convinced in any case. I can see where you’re going, however bear this in mind: General Elections are also carried out under secret ballot, yet exit polls these days are able to predict the number of seats each party will win.
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  #23845  
Old 26.10.2019, 08:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The status quo re: tax reform necessitates leaving the EU.
The UK is a democracy though. The Tories are not going to be in power forever. Can you imagine a Jeremy Corbyn led government with their big socialist spending plans carrying on with current tax policy?
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  #23846  
Old 26.10.2019, 08:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK is a democracy though. The Tories are not going to be in power forever. Can you imagine a Jeremy Corbyn led government with their big socialist spending plans carrying on with current tax policy?
I can’t imagine a Jeremy Corbyn Government, full stop. When the right controls the print media as strongly as it does, one tends to forget about the über rich not paying their share, and focus more on the 39 benefit cheats who happily died in a lorry and couldn’t burden our fine country.
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  #23847  
Old 26.10.2019, 09:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I can’t imagine a Jeremy Corbyn Government, full stop. When the right controls the print media as strongly as it does, one tends to forget about the über rich not paying their share, and focus more on the 39 benefit cheats who happily died in a lorry and couldn’t burden our fine country.
The UK does not tax capital, so just being uber rich does not give a tax liability. Capital gains are taxable but only in the event of a sale of assets, hold Fundsmith for 50 years & no capital taxes to pay until year 5. Then we come to income tax thats chargeable at 45% for higher incomes. How 45% can be seen to be too little beats me, of course Fundsmith generates income of less than 1% of capital invested, so Uber Rich may not have a huge tax bill by doing nothing. Have £10,000,000 in Fundsmith produces £57,000 of course Berkshire Hathaway produces zeno dividend.
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  #23848  
Old 26.10.2019, 09:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK does not tax capital
It does. When you die. Heavily.

Quite easy to do some avoision on this at the moment though, isn't it?
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  #23849  
Old 26.10.2019, 09:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It does. When you die. Heavily.

Quite easy to do some avoision on this at the moment though, isn't it?
No only at 40% (36% if you donate 10% to charity), thats lower than income tax rates.

To avoid the tax you have to give away assets early, probably a bad idea for most people as care late in life can easily cost £500,000, give it to the kids & a 50% chance they will lose half in a divorce. Living too long in poor health s the biggest risk.
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  #23850  
Old 26.10.2019, 10:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No only at 40% (36% if you donate 10% to charity), thats lower than income tax rates.

To avoid the tax you have to give away assets early, probably a bad idea for most people as care late in life can easily cost £500,000, give it to the kids & a 50% chance they will lose half in a divorce. Living too long in poor health s the biggest risk.
So you'd be happy to pay 40% tax on money that may have already been taxed at 45%? I never had you down as a Corbynista - hail comrade!

As you mention, it is very easy to avoid with trusts and inter-vivo gifting (rumoured to be coming down to 5 years from 7, if not totally abolished), so you can see why the mega rich are keen to see the status quo remain so.
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  #23851  
Old 26.10.2019, 10:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK does not tax capital ... [blah blah income tax] ... How 45% can be seen to be too little beats me.
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It does. When you die. Heavily.
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No only at 40%
Keeping this for posterity, tovarisch.
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  #23852  
Old 26.10.2019, 10:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So you'd be happy to pay 40% tax on money that may have already been taxed at 45%? I never had you down as a Corbynista - hail comrade!

As you mention, it is very easy to avoid with trusts and inter-vivo gifting (rumoured to be coming down to 5 years from 7, if not totally abolished), so you can see why the mega rich are keen to see the status quo remain so.
It's just what the law is in the UK, which UK tax residents have no choice to pay.
It's beed 7 years for about 35 years, however a further gift if £10k can screw up the previous gifts. It's almost too complicated to do for most people.

Trusts don't avoid the tax, they may help preserve assets in a divorce. 40% IHT payable on trust assets on death of someone with a life interest.
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  #23853  
Old 26.10.2019, 10:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's just what the law is in the UK, which UK tax residents have no choice to pay.
It's beed 7 years for about 35 years, however a further gift if £10k can screw up the previous gifts. It's almost too complicated to do for most people.

Trusts don't avoid the tax, they may help preserve assets in a divorce. 40% IHT payable on trust assets on death of someone with a life interest.
inter vivos trusts absolutely do avoid IHT.
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  #23854  
Old 26.10.2019, 10:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Keeping this for posterity, tovarisch.
You have to remember that in 1974 before Thatcher & Howe changed the UK tax system in 1979 income tax on earned income topped out at 83% with an additional 15% on investment income. (98%) This applied to incomes above £20,000 (£204,729 in 2018 money). Basic rate tax was 34%

During WW2 top rate was 99.25%

So yes in context 45% max income tax & 40% IHT are rather low by UK standards
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  #23855  
Old 26.10.2019, 10:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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inter vivos trusts absolutely do avoid IHT.
Can you provide a link to show that is true under UK law? I am 100% sure it does not.

How doe it avoid Gordon Brown's rules

2006 Budget moved to stop trusts “being used to shelter wealth from inheritance tax”. The reforms meant that most assets moved into trust were subject to an immediate 20 per cent IHT charge and an additional charge of 6 per cent every 10 years. A further charge of up to 6 per cent is levied when assets are transferred out of the trust.

So, stop trying to deal cards from an empty pack on a subject on which your knowledge comes from popular soundbite bullshit you glean from next door’s budgie

https://www.gov.uk/trusts-taxes/trusts-and-income-tax

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 26.10.2019 at 11:28. Reason: adding HMRC 'trusts' link
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  #23856  
Old 26.10.2019, 11:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Here's my take on Brexit and what 'the people' are in for from Parliament and any pro-Brexit government
that remains in power. Should the UK finally leave the EU.

As I reckon the day the UK leaves the EU is not the end of the business of Brexit and the consequences
of Brexit but the end of the beginning with far more to come.

As Deal or No Deal, Parliamentary procedure and bills will be dominated by years & years of wrangling over
trade agreements; first with the UK's immediate neighbours in the EU and then the rest of the World.
These trade agreements ( as we all know ) take years to ratify, after going through all the fine details
and smoothing out any objections that might arise from both parties before coming to an eventual
agreement.

Not to mention any realignment in rules & regulations in everything from trading standards, to health
& safety rules, as the UK has made it very clear that they are not going to rubber stamp any R&R
that comes out of Brussels ( just because we might still be trading with them ) but do 'our own thing'
when it comes to any innovations in her rules and regulations.
Existing EU rules will no doubt continue through after Brexit day but there's nothing to stop the
UK from diverging from them.

Then there's those rumblings from the SNP from 'north of the border' who are adamant that Scotland's
been betrayed by Brexit and that Scotland's best interests are served by becoming an independent
country and staying in the EU.

Those who are totally fed up of Brexit and hope that it will be out of the headlines and out of
the UK's Parliamentary business, once Britain finally leaves the EU are going to be in for a rude
awakening !!

Last edited by John William; 26.10.2019 at 11:51.
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  #23857  
Old 26.10.2019, 11:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Feel free to provide evidence disproving what I said. I am not lying, and therefore I don’t need to waste my time trying to prove to someone anonymous on the internet who unlikely wants to be convinced in any case. I can see where you’re going, however bear this in mind: General Elections are also carried out under secret ballot, yet exit polls these days are able to predict the number of seats each party will win.

I'm a long way from being anonymous. There are several people on this forum, and some in this thread, who I know in real life.

One thing about this forum, probably more than many you will encounter, is that a high percentage of the members work in science based professions (not me), so you rarely get to state something 'as fact' without being required to back it up with a varifiable source. Personally, I crave facts. Know your audience.

Exit polls in the UK are taken from a random sample of approx. 20k people across the country, which by any measure is a small sample size. An exit poll was not performed for the 2016 EU Referendum because there was no previous data to compare it to as the last referendum was 40yrs previously and also did not have an exit poll. I'm giving you just 4 of the dozens of links, and have chosen from sources across the political spectrum, which took less than 30 seconds.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ndum-exit-poll

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...erendum-result

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7094886.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a3279081.html

So you see Tony, you don't get to spout erroneous 'facts' without being challenged here. Most of us have learned that and willingly provide sources. It's good manners.
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Old 26.10.2019, 11:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Those who are totally fed up of Brexit and hope that it will be out of the headlines and out of UK's
Parliamentary business, once Britain finally leaves the EU are going to be in for a rude awakening !!
I watched this leak to the FT spreading last night and if you have social media away from here, this is something people need to be absolutely clear on. FT have deliberately not put it behind their usual firewall.

Quote:
The British government is planning to diverge from the EU on regulation and workers’ rights after Brexit, despite its pledge to maintain a “level playing field” in prime minister Boris Johnson’s deal, according to an official paper shared by ministers this week.

The government paper drafted by Dexeu, the Brexit department, with input from Downing Street stated that the UK was open to significant divergence, even though Brussels is insisting on comparable regulatory provisions.
https://www.ft.com/content/5eb0944e-...3-eca8fc8f2d65
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  #23859  
Old 26.10.2019, 12:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Can you provide a link to show that is true under UK law? I am 100% sure it does not.

How doe it avoid Gordon Brown's rules

2006 Budget moved to stop trusts “being used to shelter wealth from inheritance tax”. The reforms meant that most assets moved into trust were subject to an immediate 20 per cent IHT charge and an additional charge of 6 per cent every 10 years. A further charge of up to 6 per cent is levied when assets are transferred out of the trust.

So, stop trying to deal cards from an empty pack on a subject on which your knowledge comes from popular soundbite bullshit you glean from next door’s budgie

https://www.gov.uk/trusts-taxes/trusts-and-income-tax
From your own link:

“Bare trusts
These are where the assets in a trust are held in the name of a trustee but go directly to the beneficiary, who has a right to both the assets and income of the trust.

Transfers into a bare trust may also be exempt from Inheritance Tax, as long as the person making the transfer survives for 7 years after making the transfer.”

I shan’t hold my breath for an apology, I’d just ask you to stop listening to advice from your cockatoo.
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  #23860  
Old 26.10.2019, 12:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From your own link:

“Bare trusts
These are where the assets in a trust are held in the name of a trustee but go directly to the beneficiary, who has a right to both the assets and income of the trust.

Transfers into a bare trust may also be exempt from Inheritance Tax, as long as the person making the transfer survives for 7 years after making the transfer.”

I shan’t hold my breath for an apology, I’d just ask you to stop listening to advice from your cockatoo.
So Identical to giving directly to the person & waiting 7 years. The trust has not saved ant tax whatsoever.

No need for an apology from myself as your claim "inter vivos trusts absolutely do avoid IHT." it totally untrue.
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