The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[autopoiesis]

	Quote:
	Boris economics... https://twitter.com/PointlessBrexit/...p-coins%2F2%2F The best bit is the Brexity commemorative 50p piece cost a pound each to mint.

...which are all now going to be melted down!


Brexit 50p coins to be 'recycled' after PM accepts extension

Game on!

	Quote:
	Labour says it will back pre-Christmas general election.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-election-date

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	autopoiesis
	No, No, No! Over the last 30+ years there has (IMHO) been very little appetite for selling off various national assets (BT, utilities, Post Office, etc), etc; however, this was done regardless, because successive governments claimed they had a 'mandate' when in fact they only got in power because the alternatives were so sh!te, and not because the specifics of their policies had broad/majority support.

I can see any large utility sales since May 1991, except the Post Office, thats 28 years. I guess you are too young to remember how long it took to get a phone line in the early 1980's, 6 months was very quick with many people waiting 18 months to be connected.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I can see any large utility sales since May 1991, except the Post Office, thats 28 years. I guess you are too young to remember how long it took to get a phone line in the early 1980's, 6 months was very quick with many people waiting 18 months to be connected.

Christ, where did you live? The Outer Hebrides?

No way did it take that long.

	Quote:
	Christ, where did you live? The Outer Hebrides? No way did it take that long.

If you lived in a house with a three mile long driveway, though...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Christ, where did you live? The Outer Hebrides? No way did it take that long.

Certainly did in London, shortage of lines prefix would have been 01 340 / 01 348 at the time. 2 digits have since been added giving more lines. Those no's are now 0208 340 / 0208 348. 348 being the Fitsroy estate, people used to answer their phones Fitsroy 3456 in those days
I needed a phone for my company. Applied in October 1981 & got a connection in April 1982.

If only all the BBC Panorama programmes from the late 70's were online, there was an episode about this.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Certainly did in London, shortage of lines prefix would have been 01 340 / 01 348 at the time. 2 digits have since been added giving more lines. Those no's are now 0208 340 / 0208 348. 348 being the Fitsroy estate, people used to answer their phones Fitsroy 3456 in those days I needed a phone for my company. Applied in October 1981 & got a connection in April 1982. If only all the BBC Panorama programmes from the late 70's were online, there was an episode about this.

Damn EU coming along and speeding up all the UK phone-line connection times. Interfering bureaucrats!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Damn EU coming along and speeding up all the UK phone-line connection times. Interfering bureaucrats!

No, fax machines came into use & more lines were needed.
Competition from multiple mobile operators followed, Vodaphone competed with BT's Cellnet & the monopoly ended.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Certainly did in London, shortage of lines prefix would have been 01 340 / 01 348 at the time. 2 digits have since been added giving more lines. Those no's are now 0208 340 / 0208 348. 348 being the Fitsroy estate, people used to answer their phones Fitsroy 3456 in those days I needed a phone for my company. Applied in October 1981 & got a connection in April 1982. If only all the BBC Panorama programmes from the late 70's were online, there was an episode about this.

Took me about 1 week in 1983 (you stated early 80s). Also pretty sure no Londoner has been answering that way since the 60s/early 70s, certainly not later on.

[John William]

	Quote:
	Game on! https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-election-date

Confirmed by the BBC:

Labour to back early General Election

Looks like Boris is going to get what he's been asking for, an early General Election in December
now Jeremy Corbyn is satisfied that he's preconditions for supporting a General Election
have been satisfied.

BBC News - Labour to back calls for early General Election today

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	John William
	Confirmed by the BBC: Labour to back early General Election Looks like Boris is going to get what he's been asking for, an early General Election in December now Jeremy Corbyn is satisfied that he's preconditions for supporting a General Election have been satisfied. BBC News - Labour to back calls for early General Election today

	Quote:
	This is a once in a generation chance to build a country for the many, not the few.

First a once in a lifetime chance for Brexit, then a once in a generation vote to build the country.

[autopoiesis]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I can see any large utility sales since May 1991, except the Post Office, thats 28 years. I guess you are too young to remember how long it took to get a phone line in the early 1980's, 6 months was very quick with many people waiting 18 months to be connected.

Well, no obviously, the utilities are all gone!



Rail privatisation 1994-97, and don't forget the continuous privatisation of profits via PFI, long-criticized but only recently "abandoned". (See also: renationalisation of Railtrack, Mapely Holdings scandal, etc ad nauseum...)


My point is that huge damage has, and continues, to be done under the guise of a 'mandate'. The problem is that proper determination of the 'will of the public' is impossible through ultra-low-resolution "democratic events" such as general elections, and poorly-constructed referenda.


Cheers,
auto


PS Correct: I'm too young to have been ordering a phone line in early '80s, but old enough to remember mum cooking on a camping stove, under battery-powered lights because of power cuts (in the previous decade, which I don't pretend was a utopia).

[TonyClifton]

I myself can’t see there being an election in December. As soon as Remain inclined MPs start adding votes for children and foreigners to the Bill it will get pulled. And all it’ll go to show is that Remain MPs don’t believe they can win an election unless they cheat.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Took me about 1 week in 1983 (you stated early 80s). Also pretty sure no Londoner has been answering that way since the 60s/early 70s, certainly not later on.

It was being prepared for privatisation which occurred the following year, still crap in 1981.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I myself can’t see there being an election in December. As soon as Remain inclined MPs start adding votes for children and foreigners to the Bill it will get pulled. And all it’ll go to show is that Remain MPs don’t believe they can win an election unless they cheat.

Why is letting 16+ year olds "cheating"? It's been LibDem and Labour policy for a while now and they could vote in the Scottish independence referendum.

However and FYI, it is already accepted that there is insufficient time for a December election.

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	First a once in a lifetime chance for Brexit, then a once in a generation vote to build the country.

Politicians have more lives than a cat!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Why is letting 16+ year olds "cheating"? It's been LibDem and Labour policy for a while now and they could vote in the Scottish independence referendum. However and FYI, it is already accepted that there is insufficient time for a December election.

16 and 17 year olds are legally defined as children. They can't buy alcohol, they can't buy cigarettes as they are children. I don't believe children should be allowed to vote. There is no bottom up campaign from 16 and 17 year olds to be allowed to vote. This push is coming from adults who believe 16 and 17 year olds are malleable and easily impressionable, which they are. Most children are not emotionally developed enough to be able to form coherent arguments on complex subjects and tend reduce them to a morally based black or white fallacy. For proof of this look no further than the worlds most famous 16 year old, Greta Thunberg.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	16 and 17 year olds are legally defined as children. They can't buy alcohol, they can't buy cigarettes as they are children. I don't believe children should be allowed to vote. There is no bottom up campaign from 16 and 17 year olds to be allowed to vote. This push is coming from adults who believe 16 and 17 year olds are malleable and easily impressionable, which they are. Most children are not emotionally developed enough to be able to form coherent arguments on complex subjects and tend reduce them to a morally based black or white fallacy. For proof of this look no further than the worlds most famous 16 year old, Greta Thunberg.

The age of consent (the legal age to have sex) in the UK is 16 years old.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	16 and 17 year olds are legally defined as children. They can't buy alcohol, they can't buy cigarettes as they are children. I don't believe children should be allowed to vote. There is no bottom up campaign from 16 and 17 year olds to be allowed to vote. This push is coming from adults who believe 16 and 17 year olds are malleable and easily impressionable, which they are. Most children are not emotionally developed enough to be able to form coherent arguments on complex subjects and tend reduce them to a morally based black or white fallacy. For proof of this look no further than the worlds most famous 16 year old, Greta Thunberg.

Ah. You mean they disagree with you.

A quick google shows 10 countries already have voting from age 16. And as for the push coming from adults...again a qucik google shows this claim to be well up to your usual standards of inaccuracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votes_at_16

[John William]

	Quote:	autopoiesis
	...which are all now going to be melted down! Brexit 50p coins to be 'recycled' after PM accepts extension

I wish they would put Brexit into melt down, revoke Article 50 and dispense with the ludicrous idea of
leaving the EU in the first place and leave us Expats in Peace !!