The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[st2lemans]

They should raise the voting age to 32.

Tom

	Quote:	st2lemans
	They should raise the voting age to 32. Tom

And the Max age to 65.

[22 yards]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Why should people who have not lived in the country for over 15 years feel they have a right to dictate to those who actually live in the country day in and day out who they have to live? After 15 years you’ve made your choice. I lost the right to vote in Irish elections after 12 months and I’ve never felt I should have a right to decide how they live over there, just because I might return some day. As far as I’m concerned they are the ones that live there so they should decide how the country is run.

You're an Irish citizen living abroad. A proposal pops up in Ireland to tax all Irish citizens at 50% of their worldwide income. You're fine with that, because "they" live there so "they" should decide how the country is run.

You're a UK citizen who went to live abroad 20 years ago. For family reasons, you will return in 2021 to live in Britain permanently. A proposal pops up that would affect every resident of the UK. Let "them" decide, you say, as it would have no effect on me... yet.

You're a British citizen living abroad. A proposal pops up in the UK that could jeopardise your right to remain abroad...

Citizenship is a privilege not to be taken lightly. It confers certain rights that must be offered evenly and consistently to all citizens. When a person leaves their country, whether with the intention to leave permanently or not, they are generally not stripped of their citizenship. So why strip them of their rights?

Remember. too, that "they" back in the UK includes EU nationals resident in the UK. But resident for how long? Should they have more rights than UK citizens to determine the future of the UK?

[22 yards]

	Quote:
	And the Max age to 65.

Steady on. Tom didn't say he wants to be disenfranchised.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Thank you, yes exactly what I wrote there. If you construe that as meaning smoking and drinking make more competent voters then there is little to be done to help you.

You were the one who chose to link smoking and drinking alcohol to voting; now you cannot explain your logic?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	And the Max age to 65.

Why 65, thats 2 years before I can get my UK state pension if the don't raise the age again.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why 65, thats 2 years before I can get my UK state pension if the don't raise the age again.

Seems fair - You can contribute to the tax pot for 2 years before getting a vote, so you can also not vote for the last 2 years.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Why should people who have not lived in the country for over 15 years feel they have a right to dictate to those who actually live in the country day in and day out who they have to live? After 15 years you’ve made your choice. I lost the right to vote in Irish elections after 12 months and I’ve never felt I should have a right to decide how they live over there, just because I might return some day. As far as I’m concerned they are the ones that live there so they should decide how the country is run.

They will mostly be UK domiciled & liable to UK IHT on their world wide assets at death. Taxation without representation whilst a citizen.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Seems fair - You can contribute to the tax pot for 2 years before getting a vote, so you can also not vote for the last 2 years.

If liability to UK taxation ended at 67, I would be happy with your proposal.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why 65, thats 2 years before I can get my UK state pension if the don't raise the age again.

You that old already to be worrying about such things ?

[st2lemans]

"a consensus of neuroscientists agree that brain development likely persists until at least the mid-20s – possibly until the 30s"

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/0...lly-developed/

Tom

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	You were the one who chose to link smoking and drinking alcohol to voting; now you cannot explain your logic?

I clearly linked the ability to buy cigarettes and alcohol (in the UK) to being an adult. The logic is simple and there in black and white to read. If you pay attention and read further you’ll see I only believe adults should be allowed to vote. However you just don’t want to see it and I suspect you’re like the poster the other day who takes pleasure in trying to catch people out rather than argue the point. Trite behaviour that doesn’t warrant me wasting any further time on.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	If liability to UK taxation ended at 67, I would be happy with your proposal.

Well, quite. If you can be taxed, you should be able to vote, that's the long and short of it really.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	"a consensus of neuroscientists agree that brain development likely persists until at least the mid-20s – possibly until the 30s" https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/0...lly-developed/ Tom

32 sounds like a good min age Tom, thanks for the input

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Well, quite. If you can be taxed, you should be able to vote, that's the long and short of it really.

Well I can't vote, yet have a large future UK tax liability.
Reasonably people should be able to vote after 5 years legal residence, If you want to add a rider that they need to have paid tax, I don't have an issue with that.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Well I can't vote, yet have a large future UK tax liability. Reasonably people should be able to vote after 5 years legal residence, If you want to add a rider that they need to have paid tax, I don't have an issue with that.

There does probably have to be a limit to when you can still vote, after x years of absence from the country.

Ideally, people would be honest and self-censoring on this issue - if you're unlikely to return (as is my current plan) - then don't vote. I don't really feel I have too much of a stake in saying the direction the country should go in, if I am no longer a part of it.

As we've discussed elsewhere - if you really want to, you can avoid that UK tax liability - if you become (if you haven't already) domiciled in Malta and divest yourself of all your UK assets, then you aren't going to be owing too much in the future - in fact you won't owe anything, just any recipients domiciled in the UK will!

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I clearly linked the ability to buy cigarettes and alcohol (in the UK) to being an adult. The logic is simple and there in black and white to read. If you pay attention and read further you’ll see I only believe adults should be allowed to vote. However you just don’t want to see it and I suspect you’re like the poster the other day who takes pleasure in trying to catch people out rather than argue the point. Trite behaviour that doesn’t warrant me wasting any further time on.

But what is the logic in your argument?
Why pick cigarettes and alcohol versus other laws like the age of consent is 16 or start driving a car when you're 17 or you cannot adopt children until you are 21?

You just picked two things at random because they conveniently fit what you believe but there is no logic in your choice and no strong argument behind it.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	There does probably have to be a limit to when you can still vote, after x years of absence from the country. Ideally, people would be honest and self-censoring on this issue - if you're unlikely to return (as is my current plan) - then don't vote. I don't really feel I have too much of a stake in saying the direction the country should go in, if I am no longer a part of it. As we've discussed elsewhere - if you really want to, you can avoid that UK tax liability - if you become (if you haven't already) domiciled in Malta and divest yourself of all your UK assets, then you aren't going to be owing too much in the future - in fact you won't owe anything, just any recipients domiciled in the UK will!

I will never be domiciled in Malta as I don't intend it is the country I will die in, moving country reverts to domicile of origin. I have not decided where I will live at death. I have not even taken 'Permanent residence' in Malta like a C permit, I have re applied for ordinary residence like a B permit, there is no way I could have become domiciled in Malta.

Loosing UK domicile is more difficult than you believe, although most people will blag it & have never done a UK tax return, will probably get away with it. HNWI are not so lucky HMRC connect computer knows all about me & my movements.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	22 yards
	You're an Irish citizen living abroad. A proposal pops up in Ireland to tax all Irish citizens at 50% of their worldwide income. You're fine with that, because "they" live there so "they" should decide how the country is run.

Well such a proposal was put forward and rejected on the bases that such citizens have left the country and should not have to fund the country since they are no longer there. And if I don’t like it, it wouldn’t take me about 10 minutes on the department of foreign affairs website to give up my citizenship.

	Quote:	22 yards
	You're a UK citizen who went to live abroad 20 years ago. For family reasons, you will return in 2021 to live in Britain permanently. A proposal pops up that would affect every resident of the UK. Let "them" decide, you say, as it would have no effect on me... yet.

So on the off chance you might live there some time in the future you think you should be able to make a decision like impact peoples lives on a daily bases... you really think you have a right to make a decision that will cost people their jobs, restrict their rights to do what you did to live and work abroad, see their cost of living go up, pay more taxes or whatever just because you want to come back in 20 years time?

	Quote:	22 yards
	You're a British citizen living abroad. A proposal pops up in the UK that could jeopardise your right to remain abroad...

You have had 15 years to sort yourself out and formalized your living arrangements. You really expect to hold the country hostage because you did not get your act together.

	Quote:	22 yards
	Remember. too, that "they" back in the UK includes EU nationals resident in the UK. But resident for how long? Should they have more rights than UK citizens to determine the future of the UK?

Yes they actually should because they are the ones who have to live with your decision day in and day out. In 1984 Ireland voted 75% to grant voting rights to non Irish citizens on the argument that if they live there they should have the same rights to say how the country is run. I guess it’s a culture thing.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So on the off chance you might live there some time in the future you think you should be able to make a decision like impact peoples lives on a daily bases... you really think you have a right to make a decision that will cost people their jobs, restrict their rights to do what you did to live and work abroad, see their cost of living go up, pay more taxes or whatever just because you want to come back in 20 years time?

Or vote against all that...