The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	But what is the logic in your argument? Why pick cigarettes and alcohol versus other laws like the age of consent is 16 or start driving a car when you're 17 or you cannot adopt children until you are 21? You just picked two things at random because they conveniently fit what you believe but there is no logic in your choice and no strong argument behind it.

I used the ability to buy alcohol and cigarettes as an example of why under eighteens are not considered adults. You do know what an example is, right? There are other examples that could have been used, but I chose this one. That’s how examples work. If you insist on being so anally retentive then we can look at the legal definition of a child. The Children Act of 1989 defines a child as someone who is under the age of eighteen.

Now if you want to tell me why you believe children should have the vote then we can start having a conversation. If you wish to tell me which examples of adulthood I can and can’t use then you can get stuffed.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I used the ability to buy alcohol and cigarettes as an example of why under eighteens are not considered adults.

Doesn't that then leave you open to people presenting you with easy examples to the contrary to void your argument, though?

There are plenty of examples of situations (already given in this thread) where the 16+ members of society are defined as de facto adults without having to narrow your field to cigs and booze.

	Quote:
	Doesn't that then leave you open to people presenting you with easy examples to the contrary to void your argument, though? There are plenty of examples of situations (already given in this thread) where the 16+ members of society are defined as adults without having to narrow your field to cigs and booze.

Also, Swiss 16 year olds are adults (can buy booze, and I think fags, unsure) but UK 16 year olds aren't? What if a Swiss 16 year old moves to the UK.

The mind boggles.

	Quote:
	Also, Swiss 16 year olds are adults (can buy booze, and I think fags, unsure) but UK 16 year olds aren't? What if a Swiss 16 year old moves to the UK. The mind boggles.

Actually, in the UK, 16 year olds can consume beer and wine in pubs and restaurants with a meal. I think 16 year olds can buy beer and wine in Switzerland whereas spirits are only available after 18.

Slightly OT - To use your Swiss 16 year old moving to the UK example and flip it to a 16 year old US citizen moving the Switzerland, faced with a selection of beers and wines FIVE years earlier than the legal age in the US - WAHAAAY!

[Ato]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I used the ability to buy alcohol and cigarettes as an example of why under eighteens are not considered adults. You do know what an example is, right? There are other examples that could have been used, but I chose this one. That’s how examples work. If you insist on being so anally retentive then we can look at the legal definition of a child. The Children Act of 1989 defines a child as someone who is under the age of eighteen. Now if you want to tell me why you believe children should have the vote then we can start having a conversation. If you wish to tell me which examples of adulthood I can and can’t use then you can get stuffed.

The childrens act was for the protection of children in care, but it does state that every person under the age of 18 is a child. I find this a far more convincing argument than things people are limited to until they're 18.

The Childrens act specifically mentions that children over 16 who are either independant, in the armed forces and a few other categories are still children.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I used the ability to buy alcohol and cigarettes as an example of why under eighteens are not considered adults. You do know what an example is, right? There are other examples that could have been used, but I chose this one. That’s how examples work. If you insist on being so anally retentive then we can look at the legal definition of a child. The Children Act of 1989 defines a child as someone who is under the age of eighteen. Now if you want to tell me why you believe children should have the vote then we can start having a conversation. If you wish to tell me which examples of adulthood I can and can’t use then you can get stuffed.

And in return, I gave you examples of when children under 18 are considered adults and my examples are, by definition, better than your examples
There is also the extreme example that the age of criminal responsibility in England, Wales and Northern Ireland is 10 years old.

The age of majority for children in England and Wales varies; there are many age-related rules that distinguish between children of different ages for different purposes.
Children can leave school at age 16, work and pay taxes so they have every right to vote!

[Ato]

	Quote:	marton
	There is also the extreme example that the age of criminal responsibility in England, Wales and Northern Ireland is 10 years old. !

Just to point out that even though criminally responsible, they are tried differently until they are 18. Different courts, sentences and prisons.

BAck to Brexit and potential consequences ... please.

[Ato]

	Quote:
	BAck to Brexit and potential consequences ... please.

As a potential consequence of the ongoing political point scoring between British political parties during the Brexit process, 16 year olds may be able to vote.

	Quote:	Ato
	As a potential consequence of the ongoing political point scoring between British political parties during the Brexit process, 16 year olds may be able to vote.

Although, on balance and given the sheer lunacy of the whole process thus far, there are probably far, far worse ideas than giving 16 year olds a vote. They are rapidly coming across as savvy, level-headed and those members of society which are the hardest to fool.

Boris' Brexit attempts so far aren't worth the bus they are written on.

[curley]

	Quote:	Ato
	As a potential consequence of the ongoing political point scoring between British political parties during the Brexit process, 16 year olds may be able to vote.

That's what I thought, definitely a consequence from Brexit.

Voting at the age of 16 is a subject that comes up in Switzerland too from time to time and for a long time. I believe this is a major decision and it seems to me, GB will take it for the wrong reasons (and - but that's not new there - not thoroughly thought-out).

	Quote:
	BAck to Brexit and potential consequences ... please.

A potential consequence of Brexit is dramatically increased prices for alcohol and tobacco, making these unaffordable for 16-year-olds who will rapidly become the most level-headed members of society and will be given the right to vote.

[Ato]

	Quote:
	Although, on balance and given the sheer lunacy of the whole process thus far, there are probably far, far worse ideas than giving 16 year olds a vote. They are rapidly coming across as savvy, level-headed and those members of society which are the hardest to fool. Boris' Brexit attempts so far aren't worth the bus they are written on.

Teens in the UK are either portrayed as the future of politics with more involvement in environmentally aware actions than all previous generations due to their worries and depressions watching the world die before their time, or they're scooter stealing, weapon wielding, baby making maniacs.

Sounds like some of them saw Mad Max and thought, "This must never happen, we shall fix the world", others went the other way.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	BAck to Brexit and potential consequences ... please.

Hasn’t that already been discussed ad nausuem here?
Other than the upcoming general election what else is there left to discuss that hasn’t already been said.

I'd happily give my very sensible 13 year old grandson the vote- in exchange for that of some older relatives, for sure!

From Guardian letters:

''The only way by which a new leader could be installed in time to fight the imminent election would be if Corbyn resigned, but there is one very good reason why, at the moment, this is simply not going to happen. That is because Tom Watson would become the caretaker leader and in all likelihood fight the election as the prospective next prime minister. This is something not only the left of the party will not countenance, and his association with the Carl Beech case does not help matters.

So the obvious thing is for Corbyn and Watson to resign together, allowing the parliamentary Labour party and national executive committee to agree a short-term leadership team that would serve until after the election, when a formal leadership contest would be held. Until then, a Starmer-McDonnell double bill would brighten the political landscape significantly, though I concede that their middle-aged white maleness is an unfortunate side-effect of having to make such a decision under pressure.
Michael Woodgate
Bristol''

[curley]

	Quote:	Ato
	Teens in the UK are either portrayed as the future of politics with more involvement in environmentally aware actions than all previous generations due to their worries and depressions watching the world die before their time, or they're scooter stealing, weapon wielding, baby making maniacs. Sounds like some of them saw Mad Max and thought, "This must never happen, we shall fix the world", others went the other way.

Has there been a time when this wasn't the case?

[Ato]

	Quote:	curley
	Has there been a time when this wasn't the case?

No, you're right. Although if I'm feeling particularly pedantic I could say that scooters haven't existed for more than 100 odd years...

[curley]

	Quote:	Ato
	No, you're right. Although if I'm feeling particularly pedantic I could say that scooters haven't existed for more than 100 odd years...

Oh, believe me, we had other things to upset the elders

[marton]

	Quote:	Ato
	No, you're right. Although if I'm feeling particularly pedantic I could say that scooters haven't existed for more than 100 odd years...

The scooter wars are actually a century old
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