The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Giving to charity reduced tax liability, EU will ban such nonsense with their strict tax laws that start 1 January 2019.

Feckin' EU, coming over here with all their time travel.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Divorce & spendthrift family members. If huge sums of money are left directly to the children most will get spent with little to pass on to the next generation. It's the same with lottery winners, they blow the money very quickly,

So in your opinion, absolutely nobody is squirreling money offshore to protect it from taxes, and the only way to avoid taxes is to donate huge sums in the millions to charity.

Right, glad we cleared that up.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Giving to charity reduced tax liability, EU will ban such nonsense with their strict tax laws that start 1 January 2019.

Is there actually any link to back this up?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	So in your opinion, absolutely nobody is squirreling money offshore to protect it from taxes, and the only way to avoid taxes is to donate huge sums in the millions to charity. Right, glad we cleared that up.

Holding investments offshore don't effect the tax situation of the owner.
For a UK tax national living in the UK they have to pay tax on any income generated even if not received in the UK & capital gains as & when assets are sold. Identical tax treatment, just as holding Fundsmith in the UK or in Luxembourg. Luxembourg is for those who don't wish to hold UK assets, investment is identical.

Buy & hold investing is very tax efficient as there are no capital gains to be paid, selecting a good fund manager is key.

HMRC takes tax evasion very seriously & keeps an eye out with wealthy individuals. They have offered several disclosure schemes, they have now all closed. Anyone who has evaded £100k of tax will likely go to prison.

	Quote:
	Is there actually any link to back this up?

No it was a joke As tax rates are not aligned in the EU, the laws are fairly irrelevant, as you have the right of free movement you can choose to live in the country that has a tax system that suits you best.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Giving to charity reduced tax liability, EU will ban such nonsense with their strict tax laws that start 1 January 2019.

Shouldn’t that say ‘started’ since 1 January 2019 is already in the past?


Oops, StirB already mentioned that.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	Shouldn’t that say ‘started’ since 1 January 2019 is already in the past? Oops, StirB already mentioned that.

UK enacted the laws before the final date, however it was a typo.

Looks like the UK will still be in the EU on 1 January 2020, so nothing will change from a tax perspective.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Holding investments offshore don't affect the tax situation of the owner. For a UK tax national living in the UK they have to pay tax on any income generated even if not received in the UK & capital gains as & when assets are sold. Identical tax treatment, just as holding Fundsmith in the UK or in Luxembourg. Luxembourg is for those who don't wish to hold UK assets, investment is identical. Buy & hold investing is very tax efficient as there are no capital gains to be paid, selecting a good fund manager is key. HMRC takes tax evasion very seriously & keeps an eye out with wealthy individuals. They have offered several disclosure schemes, they have now all closed. Anyone who has evaded £100k of tax will likely go to prison.

Tax avoidance ≠ tax evasion.

If you think the only way people are doing this is by donating huge sums to charity you are exceptionally naive.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Tax avoidance ≠ tax evasion. If you think the only way people are doing this is by donating huge sums to charity you are exceptionally naive.

I think you are the naive one, plenty of dubious 'schemes' that HMRC approved at the time have since been disallowed with back taxes, penalties & interest charged to those who took part.

You might want to read what HMRC have to say on 'tackling tax avoidance'

https://assets.publishing.service.go...liance_web.pdf

Look at annex A to see what has been done since 2010

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you are the naive one, plenty of dubious 'schemes' that HMRC approved at the time have since been disallowed with back taxes, penalties & interest charged to those who took part. You might want to read what HMRC have to say on 'tackling tax avoidance' https://assets.publishing.service.go...liance_web.pdf

Of course the HMRC are going to take an official line, aren't they?

To be fair, we're still waiting for the 1 Jan 2019 EU law about charitable donations you mentioned earlier in the thread.

[fatmanfilms]

A timely reminder about democracy in the EU.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	A timely reminder about democracy in the EU.

Did the EU ignore it, or the respective national governments?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Giving to charity reduced tax liability, EU will ban such nonsense with their strict tax laws that start 1 January 2019.

Is this it? https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6853_en.htm

Doesn't mention anything about charities and mainly seems to have been brought in to get up to speed with the increasingly complex cross-border issues.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Did the EU ignore it, or the respective national governments?

The EU have facilitated ignoring it by allowing 3 extensions.

Some points from my link on tax avoidance

'a Requirement To Correct any past offshore tax non-compliance or face greatly increased penalties (Finance (No. 2) Act 2017). These penalties start at 200% of the tax owed and can be reduced through co-operation and disclosure, but will not fall below 100%"
(45% tax x 3 = 135% of sum involved minimum is 90% of sum involved)

'• new simpler criminal offences and increased penalties for offshore non- compliance (Finance Acts 2015 and 2016) – involving over £25,000 of"

"This investment has helped change the way that HMRC deals with wealthy individuals and large businesses, and has resulted in increasing criminal charges for tax fraud to over 1,000 a year, a total of 4,900 years of custodial sentences, and associated revenue losses prevented of more than £13.5 billion since 2010."

	Quote:
	Is this it? https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6853_en.htm Doesn't mention anything about charities and mainly seems to have been brought in to get up to speed with the increasingly complex cross-border issues.

Covered in my previous link

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Covered in my previous link

FFS, it's 68 pages. Where is the bit that says it is restricting charitable donations to prevent tax avoidance?

Filtering a text search for "EU" "avoidance" and "charity" has so far not come up with anything even close to what you are claiming.

i.e. some text which supports this:

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Giving to charity reduced tax liability, EU will ban such nonsense with their strict tax laws that start 1 January 2019.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The EU have facilitated ignoring it by allowing 3 extensions.

So, what you are saying is that the EU didn't actually make the decisions in your inaccurate meme.

You are saying that sovereign governments were exercising their sovereign rights to make those decisions and you are complaining about their ability to do so.

Joined up thinking is hard.

	Quote:
	So, what you are saying is that the EU didn't actually make the decisions in your inaccurate meme. You are saying that sovereign governments were exercising their sovereign rights to make those decisions and you are complaining about their ability to do so. Joined up thinking is hard.

This is what the whole Brexit mess was built on. Misdirected blame at the EU for situations which had either been created or caused by the sovereign nation involved.

Time and time again this has been demonstrated.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	FFS, it's 68 pages. Where is the bit that says it is restricting charitable donations to prevent tax avoidance? Filtering a text search for "EU" "avoidance" and "charity" has so far not come up with anything even close to what you are claiming. i.e. some text which supports this:

The 68 pages should put to bed the through that rich people can easily evade tax offshore.

I previously said it was s JOKE, so can't provide an official link at this time

I can provide a link to scrapping the charity unlimited exemption
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...rn-charity-tax

In the meantime- Boris up to no good in other ways too - with his mate Banks:

From Guardian today:

''Downing Street has been accused of sitting on an explosive parliamentary report on the security threat posed by Russia to the UK, which examined allegations that Kremlin-sponsored activity distorted the result of the 2016 EU referendum.

The cross-party intelligence and security committee said it had expected Boris Johnson to approve publication of the 50-page dossier by Thursday – and there was now a risk its publication would be prevented before the general election.

Dominic Grieve, who chairs the committee, complained in the Commons that no explanation for the “apparent delay” had been given by Downing Street, which had been sent a final draft of the report on 17 October.''

Let' hope it will be leaked if he refuses to publish.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The 68 pages should put to bed the through that rich people can easily evade tax offshore.

I'm still not sure you are getting the difference between tax "evasion" and tax "avoidance". Nobody was talking about "evasion".

This link should put to bed all doubt you have.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I previously said it was s JOKE, so can't provide an official link at this time I can provide a link to scrapping the charity unlimited exemption https://www.theguardian.com/society/...rn-charity-tax

Yes I can also find a link to that but it's irrelevant. Are you saying the 1 Jan 2019 EU ruling about charitable donations as tax avoidance is a "joke"?? Or can you just not find a link?

[marton]

	Quote:
	In the meantime- Boris up to no good in other ways too - with his mate Banks: From Guardian today: ''Downing Street has been accused of sitting on an explosive parliamentary report on the security threat posed by Russia to the UK, which examined allegations that Kremlin-sponsored activity distorted the result of the 2016 EU referendum. The cross-party intelligence and security committee said it had expected Boris Johnson to approve publication of the 50-page dossier by Thursday – and there was now a risk its publication would be prevented before the general election. Dominic Grieve, who chairs the committee, complained in the Commons that no explanation for the “apparent delay” had been given by Downing Street, which had been sent a final draft of the report on 17 October.'' Let' hope it will be leaked if he refuses to publish.

Evermore parallels between Boris and Trumpy

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I'm still not sure you are getting the difference between tax "evasion" and tax "avoidance". Nobody was talking about "evasion". This link should put to bed all doubt you have. Yes I can also find a link to that but it's irrelevant. Are you saying the 1 Jan 2019 EU ruling about charitable donations as tax avoidance is a "joke"?? Or can you just not find a link?

You need to read the full 68 pages, it covers avoidance, non compliance & evasion . Failing to disclose income squirrelled away is tax evasion, which is what you keep mentioning rich people do.

I made a JOKE, a joke is something that people laugh or smile at, it even had a when I made the post.