The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	He added: “If you create a tax regime that is not going to welcome and support people like me who create wealth then you are going to rapidly reduce the health of your economy.” There is dynamic here. Everyone is... pretty much... capable of creating wealth. One of the things wealth creators do is suppress other wealth creators. This is not immoral. It just happens. So if "wealth creators" leave then some of those who remain will take their place. And if you think they won't because the system won't encourage wealth creation... then you have entered a circular argument unless you accept that for wealth to be created one needs *both* wealth creators and a system that encourages it. The sloshing waves on the ocean of wealth are very high right now. I think many of us prefer calmer seas. I am happy that one of my friends who is typically very liberal economically does support a fair tax level. We may argue what that level is. Statista.com has this: "In 2018/19 the value of HMRC tax receipts for the United Kingdom amounted to approximately 623.4 billion British pounds." Council tax adds another 28 billion to that Worldometers says UK pop (live) is 67,651,447. That works out about £9,500 per man woman and child in the UK. That's worth thinking about. Single bloke of average earnings pays about £2500, clearly that would need to double or triple if the rich left https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...zMIKpCreeUiImc

Doesn't your post say that new wealth creators will just replace them anyway? The rich are clearly expendable according to your post.

[marton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Meanwhile rebellion disaster in Doncaster, not a brexiteer in sight..

To be fair there was a much better turnout at the London demonstration; at least 20 people!
https://twitter.com/jonathan_spink/s...42443241807874

Best tweets so far

	Quote:
	Actually, those are the remnant stragglers of Nige's March, who've finally managed to find London.😉

	Quote:
	Police should have broken up the demo by waving a few Weatherspoon vouchers.

[Odile]

More enthusiasm in Glasgow, despite cold and rain

https://www.facebook.com/Independenc...5835287991891/

The way in which the tories have treated and disrespected Scottish MPs in the house of commons in recent months, must've nailed it for many folks in Scotland who clearly want rid of HMG and their toxic tribal shite.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	Doesn't your post say that new wealth creators will just replace them anyway? The rich are clearly expendable according to your post.

I have posted the tax explained as beer in the forum before, but it may be helpful for those who don't understand

"Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a 100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.
But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"
"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!
And that is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."

[StirB]

To understand how tax really works, and why the beer example is a poor analogy, one must think a bit deeper about things...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway.../#443fc09d56d3

Who knew; tax is a bit more nuanced than a Facebook meme.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	To understand how tax really works, and why the beer example is a poor analogy, one must think a bit deeper about things... https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway.../#443fc09d56d3 Who knew; tax is a bit more nuanced than a Facebook meme.

It's been in the public domain since at least 2001 when it was published in the Chicago Tribne as a letter to the editor from Don Dodson.
Thats well before Facebook

It's probably worth remembering that 10k a month in CH puts in the top 0.1% of income in the world, how much more tax do you want to pay?

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It's been in the public domain since at least 2001 when it was published in the Chicago Tribne as a letter to the editor from Don Dodson. Thats well before Facebook

Apologies, you were fooled by something pre-facebook, not post.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It's probably worth remembering that 10k a month in CH puts in the top 0.1% of income in the world, how much more tax do you want to pay?

How is this relevant to anything?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	Apologies, you were fooled by something pre-facebook, not post. How is this relevant to anything?

You are extremely wealthy on a global scale but only believe it's up to others who are richer than you are should pay more.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...oz4JGWlZGfrjT0

Amazing the way Labour leaders do so well, the Kinnoks have state pensions of £185,000.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...oz4JGWlZGfrjT0

[Odile]

So, Government saying it will take 7+ weeks before they publish the official report on Russian involvement- rather than the statutory 10 days. I wonder why?

Seems like Cummings had an 'interesting' life in Russia for 3 years ...
and Boris has been regularly visiting Russian oligarchs on 'bunga bunga holidays' on 'Russian mountain' in Umbria ...

Hopefully someone will do the decent democratic thing and leak report if Government tries to stiffle it.

[marton]

	Quote:
	The Daily Telegraph has been forced to correct a column written by Boris Johnson, after he falsely claimed the UK is set to “become the largest and most prosperous economy in this hemisphere”. The newspaper said that Johnson misrepresented long-term economic projections to give the impression that the British economy would overtake Germany “in our lifetimes” – despite no such data existing.

Source

Johnson the english Trump #MGBGA

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	You are extremely wealthy on a global scale but only believe it's up to others who are richer than you are should pay more.

My bad, I must have missed the world government’s global income tax reminder.

[Jim2007]

So Nigel Farage will not run as a candidate in the election. Talk about abdicating responsible for a strategy he has been pushing for over twenty years... next up their candidates will start to drop out and the BP will be consigned to history like UKIP.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So Nigel Farage will not run as a candidate in the election. Talk about abdicating responsible for a strategy he has been pushing for over twenty years... next up their candidates will start to drop out and the BP will be consigned to history like UKIP.

Nigel Farage true colours are coming out now. Now that the UK is on the cusp of leaving the EU and he will become irrelevant and he’s doing his best to sabotage the process. His ego could result in the UK never leaving the EU, which would be ironic considering he’s campaigned his entire life for it.

The extreme Brexiteers like Nigel Farage are hard to fathom and compromise doesn’t even enter into their vocabulary. Despite Brexit, the EU are the UK’s friends and neighbours and it’s paramount that a strong relationship is maintained after Brexit. I’m not too happy with the Brexit deal, and in other circumstances it may have been handled better. It is however not all bad as the likes of Nigel Farage like to keep telling us. Most importantly it allows the UK to leave the EU.

[reids]

	Quote:	marton
	Source Johnson the english Trump #MGBGA

#MGBGT actually, there was no MGBGA, never had one but I did have a Midget.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	marton
	Source Johnson the english Trump #MGBGA

Trump has found that it's the winning formula; tell people what they want to hear, even if there is no substance, fact or logic to it. If he works on the principle that not enough people will take the trouble to fact check, and those that do challenge you can be resoundingly undermined and ridiculed - bingo!

[Rob]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So Nigel Farage will not run as a candidate in the election. Talk about abdicating responsible for a strategy he has been pushing for over twenty years... next up their candidates will start to drop out and the BP will be consigned to history like UKIP.

Dolphin Man can stand down.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Trump has found that it's the winning formula; tell people what they want to hear, even if there is no substance, fact or logic to it. If he works on the principle that not enough people will take the trouble to fact check, and those that do challenge you can be resoundingly undermined and ridiculed - bingo!

Quite just like the Labour Party & BREXIT.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Quite just like the Labour Party & BREXIT.

Corbyn clearly needs to work on his wild fantasy porkies a bit more if he wants to reach BoJo's level, and BREXIT was littered with cock and bull stories, which is why the UK is in the mess it's in today. Are you saying BREXIT should have been telling more lies than it already did?

[Blueangel]

Looking forward to 'Dispatches' tonight at 21:00 on Channel 4 examining the influence of Dominic Cummings and Seumas Milne.

https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/sta...65277645111296