The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[22 yards]

	Quote:	John William
	Fortunately it didn't clash with A British Guide to the End of the World, that started later on BBC4.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Not wishing to be rude, but how old are you?

I thought you were going to continue with "Haven't you heard about those new-fangled Betamax VCRs? You can tape a programme and watch it later!"

[John William]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Not wishing to be rude, but how old are you? If you want anything that puts a better perspective on this era, 'Deutschland 83' is brilliant because the soundtrack is accurate to the events timeline and each episode is named after a Cold War era military operation.

Now admit it - you really love the opening theme tune to Deutschland 83, the rest is in German with
English subtitles although yes Deutschland 83 was a great series.

As for me 'I was there during the Cold War' with the ROC and started as number 3 Observer, in one
of those 872 ROC Posts scattered about the UK. So like Martin Rauch ( code name Kolibre )
'I would have been doing a lot of running about' ( in & out of the ROC post bunker, to retrieve
negatives of the blast ) if the Cold War turned hot and the bomb dropped.

Deutschland 83 - Opening titles theme music video

For more soundtracks of the Cold War era of the 1980's and a great documentary on The Able
Archer exercise, Cold War scare of 1983.

C4 - 1983 The Brink of Apocalypse video

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	22 yards
	I thought you were going to continue with "Haven't you heard about those new-fangled Betamax VCRs? You can tape a programme and watch it later!"

Cheeky! We went straight to VHS, but my mate did have laserdisc player and a well worn copy of Easyrider. Fleetingly going back to earlier posts, we watched Easyrider before cracking on with building chops and low riders, or helping my mate's brother refurb a steady stream of Midgets, MGBGT's and a gorgeous yellow Triumph Stag. It took him about 12 refurbs to save enough to buy his house cash (1983-85).

	Quote:	John William
	Now admit it - you really love the opening theme tune to Deutschland 83

Love it!

	Quote:	John William
	As for me 'I was there during the Cold War' with the ROC and started as number 3 Observer, in one of those 872 ROC Posts scattered about the UK.

Ok. I always had the impression you were younger. Apologies.

[Blueangel]

There's summat peculiar going on in the Uk. Just read this...

'UK election polls: Labour’s London lead is halved as it’s all to play for in capital' https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4279016.html

...and am reminded that The Standard is largely owned by Evgeny Lebedev who is a good friend of the PM, and was a regular visitor to his home in Italy before becoming PM. A number of newspapers ran articles about his antics there in summer.

There's a FOI request and response here https://www.london.gov.uk/about-us/g...johnson-office

...and also a short video from John Sweeney partially explaining the links here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=023nN-tvADs

Whilst I'm well aware that John Sweeney is no longer a BBC reporter and left under quite a cloud, it does make me wonder if the PM is pulling strings to elicit favourable reporting, or could the LDs actually take London? I'd be surprised. One other thing this makes me question is if the FOI info is included in the Russian report that the PM is stifling.

[John William]

Ode to the forthcoming British General Election:

The Charge of the Brexiteer brigade

Into the valley of death rode the Tory Brexiteers,
forward Brexiteers forward !, it's the will of the people,
Brexit do or die, so lets get Brexit done, cries Johnson.

Was there a Tory backbencher dismayed.
Not that the Tory rank and file knew, someone
had blundered in the Cabinet.

So with the WhichRemainer Finder General, Dom Cummings
glaring at the Tory rank and file from upon high.
Theirs not to make reply, theirs is but to do or die.
Into the Valley of Death rode the Tory Brexiteers.

Corbyn to the left of them, Bercow to the right,
the LibDems & SNP in front of them.
Volleys of 'Order, Order', thunder across the House.
Stormed at by bleak reports from the CBI & dire
predictions from the Bank of England.
Boldly they pressed forward, into the jaws of
a No Deal Brexit and Brexit Armegeddon,
Rode the Tory Brexiteers.

Flashing all their Points of Order papers, they
press forward with their interventions as the
Leader of the House, Jacob Rees-Mogg quotes from
Shakespeare's, Henry V, act III; Once more unto the
breach dear friends, once more or die in a ditch
along with our esteemed PM.

While all the world wondered, will Brexit ever happen ?
As Parliament is thrown into more gridlock from yet
another failed attempt to Get Brexit Done !!

Corbyn to the left of them, Bercow to the right,
the LibDems & SNP in front of them.
As members of the cabinet resign and colleagues
fall by the wayside, after being dismounted from
their constituencies; after losing the whip !!
Boldly they press forward, into the Valley of death
rode the Tory Brexiteers !!

[marton]

Boris lying like Trump

	Quote:
	Boris Johnson has been accused of misleading the public about his own Brexit deal, after footage emerged of him telling exporters in Northern Ireland they will not need to fill in extra paperwork. That appeared to flatly contradict the Brexit secretary, who gave testimony to the House of Lords recently that businesses would need to complete “exit summary declarations” when sending shipments from Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK.

Source

Either he does not understand his own deal or he is using bare-faced lies to promote his election chances.

[marton]

UK's credit rating crashing down due to Brexit!

	Quote:
	Moody’s, which stripped the country of its AAA rating in 2013 and downgraded it again in 2017, said it was lowering the outlook on Britain’s current Aa2 rating to negative from stable, meaning the rating could be cut again. Any signs that Britain was unable to replicate the benefits of EU membership with trade deals in Europe and beyond would also be negative for the rating.

Source

There are now 25 countries with higher credit ratings than the UK including South Korea and, of course, Switzerland!

[John William]

Yes I remember the days, not so long ago when Britain basked in the glory of
a Triple A rating, with regard to it's Sovereign debt; halcyon day's that we took for granted,
I know but one that continued for ( I believe ) well over a decade before the
misconceived Referendum on the EU raised its ugly head; in fact even a whiff that
Cameron was likely to hold a referendum on the EU, was enough for Moody's to
strip Britain of it's Triple A rating back in 2013.

Yes AAA was a far more realistic ambition to achieve and admire, than looking back with
rose-tinted glasses, on the former glories of Britain's trading empire and hoping you can
emulate it again with a little help from our ( America has first refusal on running the NHS !! )
so called friend in the USA, called Donald Trump.

Of course those days have long gone, maybe never to return again thanks to Brexit
and Tory election promises to bribe the electorate, with assurances that we will
spend millions or billions of pounds on the NHS, sprucing up long neglected hospitals
( before outsourcing it to the Americans ) not to mention the Police and
getting more Bobbies on the beat.
The only condition being that you turn a blind eye to the aftermath and consequences
of leaving the EU; no matter how much it hits you in the pocket and the
greater prospects of you losing your job because your employer would rather
be based in a Single market country within the EU.

Therefore it's with much regret that we find Moody's warning it will cut it's rating
on Britain's sovereign debt again to Aa2 meaning that Britain's Sovereign debt
will be moving from stable to negative soon.

Thanks Marton for bringing the link below to our attention.

Reuters - UK Spending plans and Brexit paralysis puts Britain's rating at risk, Moody's

	Quote:	marton
	Boris lying like Trump Source Either he does not understand his own deal or he is using bare-faced lies to promote his election chances.

Matt Hancock trying to explain this- and failed, miserably, today. Because it can't be justified or explained, in any way, shape whatsoever.

I almost feel sorry for them- having to spend all their time apologising for what they know to be inexcusable ..

https://www.facebook.com/12456320431...4376514492393/

Grand though, to see interviewers increasingly no taking NO, deflect, attack opposition, etc, for an answer- and going for the jugular- irrespective of party.
If someone does not give an answer to the question, cut off, and repeat- 3 times- then cut off altogether- and 'empty chair' too. No fan of Piers Morgan, for sure, but good for him to expose the fraudulent manipulation of an interview with Kier Starmer by Cummings and co- and putting the record right.

The name of the game- what a ****

https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMome...4621470607022/

pre-Grenfell of course, when he was Mayor of London. The arrogance of that man is beyond the beyond.

[marton]

@JW

There are now four third world countries with better credit ratings than the UK

[fatmanfilms]

UK has potential liabilities to EU central bank of about 300 billion, far better to leave & loose the potential liabilities.

And lies, more lies. A Free Press is one thing- campaigns of disinformation and lies, another. Good job TV interviewers have cottoned on to the sheer lies pushed into the campaign by the likes of Cummings, and will expose them and challenge them (all sides):

https://www.facebook.com/danielxfarr...9772675830417/

[John William]

	Quote:	marton
	@JW There are now four third world countries with better credit ratings than the UK

And British Expats/Immigrants become third country citizens after we lose our EU citizen status.
Yes, yet another fine mess you've got us into Boris.

[IronAngle]

	Quote:	John William
	And British Expats/Immigrants become third country citizens after we lose our EU citizen status. Yes, yet another fine mess you've got us into Boris.

With respect, if the expats were so concerned about the prosperity of their country they might not have left to begin with. You can't leave and still expect politics to work in your favour.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	IronAngle
	With respect, if the expats were so concerned about the prosperity of their country they might not have left to begin with. You can't leave and still expect politics to work in your favour.

That's such a peculiar statement. It makes huge assumptions and generalisations about why we have left the UK. This isn't about politics working in our favour. It's about being unwillingly stripped of the rights that other EU citizens benefit from, which becomes a huge issue when those citizens are our partners and family members. It's about giving a damn about the family and friends we still have in the UK.

This is the most upsetting and depressing story I've seen coming out of the UK for a while.

	Quote:
	Glasgow mums have set up a baby food bank to help families in need of supplies in time for Christmas. They are calling for donations of items such as stage one formula, nappies, baby wipes, baby food for 6 months plus, breast pads and toiletries. The group consisting of Springburn mums, who run a breakfast club at the local Salvation Army hall, is also working with the assistance of two health visitors.

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...ime-christmas/

[Blueangel]

Sunday Times are running this story today...

	Quote:
	Oligarchs and other wealthy Tory donors were included in the report on illicit Russian activities in Britain by the cross-party intelligence & security select committee (ISC), whose publication was blocked last week by No10. See tomorrow’s Sunday Times @cazjwheeler Some Russian donors are personally close to the prime minister, including Alexander Temerko, who had close links to the Kremlin’s defence industry, and who has spoken warmly of his “friend” Boris Johnson. He has donated over £1.2m to the Tories over the past 7 years. MPs on the intelligence committee were also briefed on concerns regarding Alexander Lebedev, the former KGB spy who was allowed to buy the London Evening Standard newspaper. Alexander’s son Evgeny has hosted prime minister Boris Johnson at his Italian estate near Perugia When he was foreign secretary, Johnson travelled to the Lebedev’s Italian estate in April 2018 - apparently without the close protection police officers that normally accompany senior ministers of state. He was photographed by tourists at the local airport looking worse for wear. It is not known whether the Russian Tory donors are mentioned in main ISC report, or the classified annex. Britain’s intel agencies are understood to be “furious” at the failure to publish as all necessary steps to protect national security have been taken. See tomorrow’s ST

https://twitter.com/TomJHarper/statu...79348851314688

Looks like John Sweeney was onto something in his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=023nN-tvADs

[IronAngle]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	That's such a peculiar statement. It makes huge assumptions and generalisations about why we have left the UK. This isn't about politics working in our favour. It's about being unwillingly stripped of the rights that other EU citizens benefit from, which becomes a huge issue when those citizens are our partners and family members. It's about giving a damn about the family and friends we still have in the UK.

It's not exactly unwilling if the people voted to leave. You will say that you didn't vote leave, however the majority did and in a democracy that's what counts.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	IronAngle
	It's not exactly unwilling if the people voted to leave. You will say that you didn't vote leave, however the majority did and in a democracy that's what counts.

That's not true. Democracy is a Greek word meaning that the people create/are the state, and my Greek OH always says that the difference between democracy and a dictatorship is that, in a democracy you have the right to speak a dissenting view without fear. In a true democracy, the views and needs of a minority aren't neglected and disrespected because they are not the majority.

In this case, many of the 48% minority are fighting to have the legitimacy and integrity of their nation's political system maintained and made free from the outside influence of hostile governments.

Food for thought in this video:

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/s...59205784494090