Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #24421  
Old 14.11.2019, 10:44
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I love the reasonable, we all have an opinion shite about folks who write false bollocks, and plenty of it..
This is the thing about t'internet, fringe ideas and falsehoods become disproportionately amplified.
I was listening to the 'On The House' podcast the other week where Dr. Phillip Lee was blaming a lot of the downturn in vaccinations in the UK with tv media claiming to present 'both sides of the debate'. He made the excellent point that, if a certain view is held by only 1% of the medical profession, then the only correct way to represent that view accurately would be to have a tv panel of 99 doctors who support vaccination debating 1 doctor who doesn't. Anything other than that gives more weight and validity to a fringe view.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #24422  
Old 14.11.2019, 10:59
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,805
Groaned at 193 Times in 160 Posts
Thanked 13,306 Times in 6,938 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
This is the thing about t'internet, fringe ideas and falsehoods become disproportionately amplified.
I was listening to the 'On The House' podcast the other week where Dr. Phillip Lee was blaming a lot of the downturn in vaccinations in the UK with tv media claiming to present 'both sides of the debate'. He made the excellent point that, if a certain view is held by only 1% of the medical profession, then the only correct way to represent that view accurately would be to have a tv panel of 99 doctors who support vaccination debating 1 doctor who doesn't. Anything other than that gives more weight and validity to a fringe view.
That presupposes that the more people believe something, the "righter" it is.
That is not the case and can be seen in history too. Take Galileo Galilei who dared to claim the planets circle the sun.

While majorities are a good thing for final decisions - as it says more people can live with a decision than not - they do not stand for a correct decision. It's just a way to move on (for the moment).
Reply With Quote
  #24423  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:00
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,006
Groaned at 414 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 2,402 Times in 1,141 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I know, sorry I'll be very quick: to talk in these terms of doom and gloom when Europe is one of the most innovative places in the world and you only have to look at human development indexes, education systems and so on.....and praise other places like India and China instead, wow. Not to mention freedom and peace. I think he's one of those trolls that we used to have right from the beginning when the Brexit thing started, but they're getting better and better these days. More subtle. But more ridiculous too.
I’m sure the citizens of the Western Roman Empire would also say they enjoyed freedom, education and peace right before the Visigoths came along and sacked Rome. The same could perhaps be said for the Inca Empire right before the Spanish landed on their shores. Freedom and peace (which I’ve at no point criticised btw) count for nothing in the face of external pressure.

I’ve also not “praised” China or India, it would be a terrible thing if Europe was ever to endure a regime such as China’s. I have only stayed the fact that they’ve until recently have enjoyed double digit growth whilst the EU has flatlined. If this growth continues and will be seen in other developing countries then the EU will be left behind.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #24424  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:02
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,006
Groaned at 414 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 2,402 Times in 1,141 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I think someone should have spelled it out for you, after all you must be one of those people who are against political correctness and all that stuff that certain conservatives invoke when they are being called out on the shit they talk.

Stupid. There.
That’s really not a pleasant thing to say. You should really think twice before making accusations or throwing around insults.
Reply With Quote
  #24425  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I’m sure the citizens of the Western Roman Empire would also say they enjoyed freedom, education and peace right before the Visigoths came along and sacked Rome. The same could perhaps be said for the Inca Empire right before the Spanish landed on their shores. Freedom and peace (which I’ve at no point criticised btw) count for nothing in the face of external pressure.
Brexiters seem to love to deal with the past when it aligns with their views but get awfully resistant when it's pointed out that more modern history shows what happens when close nations are fragmented and at odds with each other.

Quote:
View Post
I’ve also not “praised” China or India, it would be a terrible thing if Europe was ever to endure a regime such as China’s. I have only stayed the fact that they’ve until recently have enjoyed double digit growth whilst the EU has flatlined. If this growth continues and will be seen in other developing countries then the EU will be left behind.
Isn't the popular belief that China's growth is firstly misrepresented, and secondly, not sustainable?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #24426  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:10
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
You should really think twice before making accusations or throwing around insults.
Why should she when you don't?
Reply With Quote
  #24427  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:13
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,845
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,174 Times in 9,668 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I’m sure the citizens of the Western Roman Empire would also say they enjoyed freedom, education and peace right before the Visigoths came along and sacked Rome. The same could perhaps be said for the Inca Empire right before the Spanish landed on their shores. Freedom and peace (which I’ve at no point criticised btw) count for nothing in the face of external pressure.

I’ve also not “praised” China or India, it would be a terrible thing if Europe was ever to endure a regime such as China’s. I have only stayed the fact that they’ve until recently have enjoyed double digit growth whilst the EU has flatlined. If this growth continues and will be seen in other developing countries then the EU will be left behind.
So you support the idea of a European army to protect the EU from the Visigoths and others?

It is easy for third world countries to achieve double-digit growth when they start from near zero, gets more difficult as their economy picks up. As an example, look at the declining auto market in China.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #24428  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
That’s really not a pleasant thing to say. You should really think twice before making accusations or throwing around insults.
All hail King Troll.

I love it!

You know, I think you're great.. someone should pay you for this stuff.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #24429  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:14
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
That presupposes that the more people believe something, the "righter" it is.
That is not the case and can be seen in history too. Take Galileo Galilei who dared to claim the planets circle the sun.
It doesn't. It effectively employs the lessons of history. If that one proponent of a differing theory can effectively make their case in the face of huge opposition, their theory gains traction.
Reply With Quote
  #24430  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:15
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,762
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,835 Times in 10,624 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:

Isn't the popular belief that China's growth is firstly misrepresented, and secondly, not sustainable?
Yes, but it's clearly growing far faster than EU growth rates. Not sustainable at current rates but sustainable as substantially higher than EU growth rates, that will be an issue 30 years down the line.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #24431  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but it's clearly growing far faster than EU growth rates. Not sustainable at current rates but sustainable as substantially higher than EU growth rates, that will be an issue 30 years down the line.
I wonder how accurate forecasts of the global economy 30 years ago are in today's world?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #24432  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but it's clearly growing far faster than EU growth rates. Not sustainable at current rates but sustainable as substantially higher than EU growth rates, that will be an issue 30 years down the line.
China is modernizing at an incredible rate. The more this happens, the more of a middle class will develop and start demanding expensive things, like human rights and holiday pay.

When you are starting at the bottom and have an almost limitless supply of indentured homegrown slaves to build your country, you grow quickly - when they get educated and start demanding a chunk of the pie, then your growth slows or you become North Korea and suppress dissent.

That said, China is outstripping us in transport infrastructure (building new easier than upgrading old) and green energy tech - largely because the burgeoning middle class aren't huge fans of living in Dickensian smog.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #24433  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:30
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,845
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,174 Times in 9,668 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but it's clearly growing far faster than EU growth rates. Not sustainable at current rates but sustainable as substantially higher than EU growth rates, that will be an issue 30 years down the line.
But as I already posted they are working from a much lower point.
GDP per head in China is $16,842 and they are number 79 on the list of World country GDP's per head, about the same as the Maldives and the Dominican Republic whereas EU countries range between $45K and $75K.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #24434  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Just like the racist that never uses the N-word.
Numpty is just another word for the S-word, no?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #24435  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:36
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
That presupposes that the more people believe something, the "righter" it is.
That is not the case and can be seen in history too. Take Galileo Galilei who dared to claim the planets circle the sun.

While majorities are a good thing for final decisions - as it says more people can live with a decision than not - they do not stand for a correct decision. It's just a way to move on (for the moment).
I'm not sure Galileo is the best comparison to make with anti-vaxxers and "bugger you, Jack" types. In my humble opinion, obvs.
Reply With Quote
  #24436  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:39
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

For anyone who missed it, the sweet little old lady in this video clip who was introduced to the PM yesterday, wasn't overly impressed by him And this came after another day of him being heckled everywhere he went. He looks exhausted.

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1194694105013608455
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #24437  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 369
Groaned at 35 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 792 Times in 407 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
China is modernizing at an incredible rate. The more this happens, the more of a middle class will develop and start demanding expensive things, like human rights and holiday pay.

When you are starting at the bottom and have an almost limitless supply of indentured homegrown slaves to build your country, you grow quickly - when they get educated and start demanding a chunk of the pie, then your growth slows or you become North Korea and suppress dissent.

That said, China is outstripping us in transport infrastructure (building new easier than upgrading old) and green energy tech - largely because the burgeoning middle class aren't huge fans of living in Dickensian smog.
Maybe the pro-democracy protests will spread from Hong Kong to China, somehow it looks like more
than a coincidence that the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong started on the 30 anniversary
year of the Fall of the Berlin Wall.

In fact if the Chinese hadn't suppressed the 1989 protests in Tiananmen Square back in 1989, maybe
Chinese communism might have gone the way communism fell, in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.
Reply With Quote
  #24438  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:52
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,995
Groaned at 240 Times in 203 Posts
Thanked 23,079 Times in 9,806 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
This is the thing about t'internet, fringe ideas and falsehoods become disproportionately amplified.
I was listening to the 'On The House' podcast the other week where Dr. Phillip Lee was blaming a lot of the downturn in vaccinations in the UK with tv media claiming to present 'both sides of the debate'. He made the excellent point that, if a certain view is held by only 1% of the medical profession, then the only correct way to represent that view accurately would be to have a tv panel of 99 doctors who support vaccination debating 1 doctor who doesn't. Anything other than that gives more weight and validity to a fringe view.
By that logic, a discussion on UK-Chinese relations should also have the Chinese and UK side proportionally represented according to the population size of those countries.

That said, I don't think the Internet is soley at fault for amplifying fringe views. Journalism has been doing that for deacdes. And that is because fringe stuff sells. People want to see coverage of some minority groups doing wierd stuff and not documentaries on lawn mowers and emerging trends in contemporary accountancy. This can over time create the impresion that people doing wierd stuff are actually more important / numerous than in reality they are. Ditto for puppies born with two heads and oddly shaped turnips.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #24439  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Lol at the idea that Brexit, under current conditions, is a good idea.

Anyone who still defends the notion, looking at the unprincipled shysters who are responsible for delivering it, and knowing what we know about improperly prepared life outside the bloc, either secretly has something to gain from the fiasco, or is simply stupid.

Yes, Mr Clifton, I used the S-word. I don't really care if "conservative" snowflakes take offence, since conservatism is dead anyway. Time to suck it up and move on.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #24440  
Old 14.11.2019, 11:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
By that logic, a discussion on UK-Chinese relations should also have the Chinese and UK side proportionally represented according to the population size of those countries.

That said, I don't think the Internet is solely at fault for amplifying fringe views. Journalism has been doing that for decades. And that is because fringe stuff sells. People want to see coverage of some minority groups doing weird stuff and not documentaries on lawn mowers and emerging trends in contemporary accountancy. This can over time create the impression that people doing weird stuff are actually more important / numerous than in reality they are. Ditto for puppies born with two heads and oddly shaped turnips.
I understood it as being applicable to "debate and views" rather than "trade and economic negotiations"?

You can look at the "proportion" argument applying to any subject but I don't think it's relevant in the way you have used it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (1 members and 3 guests)
marton
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0