The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[curley]

Thanks marton.
Sandgrounder gave me a link that put me up to speed.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

No exactly Brexit, but it part of it. ITV debate between Tory and Labour, Lib Dems and SNP lose High Court case.

"In the High Court in London, Lord Justice Davis and Mr Justice Warby said the case was not suitable for judicial review as ITV was not carrying out a "public function" in law by holding the debate."

What the hell are ITV doing then, if it's not a "public function"?

"Their legal argument was that ITV was not exercising a public function as it is a private broadcaster - albeit regulated - therefore could not be subject to judicial review."

So if this was being broadcast on the Beeb, they'd have heard the case?

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50463816

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	No exactly Brexit, but it part of it. ITV debate between Tory and Labour, Lib Dems and SNP lose High Court case. "In the High Court in London, Lord Justice Davis and Mr Justice Warby said the case was not suitable for judicial review as ITV was not carrying out a "public function" in law by holding the debate." What the hell are ITV doing then, if it's not a "public function"? "Their legal argument was that ITV was not exercising a public function as it is a private broadcaster - albeit regulated - therefore could not be subject to judicial review." So if this was being broadcast on the Beeb, they'd have heard the case? https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50463816

The Lib Dems can bugger off, but it's disgraceful to exclude the SNP.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	Boris using the NHS to lever voters his way! This is typical Boris double talk. If extra money is to be spent on the NHS it will come from the Treasury and our taxes. Not cutting taxes does not save any money. It is similar to people saying how much money they saved by buying stuff "on-sale". That is not saving; when you buy stuff on-sale it is extra spending. Saving means having a pile of dosh under the mattress; it does not mean buying a half-price clock or whatever! Anyway good to know Boris has changed his mind about turning UK into a tax haven off the coast of Europe Also good to know if he does make it into a tax haven off the coast of Europe then the NHS will be the first financial victim.

This is just further evidence that Boris Johnson has firmly placed his flag in the center ground of UK politics. James Kirkup has made a similar argument in today's Times which I would recommend reading if anyone has a subscription. The lurch to the far-right as some have suggested on this forum is not reflected in his politics. The departure from traditional conservatism (in favour of a Blairite/Cameron style of politics) as others have argued carries more weight.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	This is just further evidence that Boris Johnson has firmly placed his flag in the center ground of UK politics. James Kirkup has made a similar argument in today's Times which I would recommend reading if anyone has a subscription. The lurch to the far-right as some have suggested on this forum is not reflected in his politics. The departure from traditional conservatism (in favour of a Blairite/Cameron style of politics) as others have argued carries more weight.

To be fair, it’s not ‘evidence’, it’s your ‘opinion’ which is fine, but don’t try to pass it off as fact.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	To be fair, it’s not ‘evidence’, it’s your ‘opinion’ which is fine, but don’t try to pass it off as fact.

“Evidence” is the correct use of English, but thanks for yet another snarky comment.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	“Evidence” is the correct use of English, but thanks for yet another snarky comment.

I'm curious... could you tell me how tall the towers of the Grossmunster are?

I understand that some people travel a very long way to see them.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	“Evidence” is the correct use of English, but thanks for yet another snarky comment.

Nope. It's "opinion as fact", a persuasive language technique. Evidence deals in facts. They look similar, that's why advertisement campaigns use 'em.

[John William]

	Quote:	marton
	Since you asked! Source BBC so must be true. If anyone is wearing a tin foil hat it is Spanky.

Precisely here's the foreign power seeking influence over another countries health service with knobs on TC !!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Nope. It's "opinion as fact", a persuasive language technique. Evidence deals in facts. They look similar, that's why advertisement campaigns use 'em.

I’ve not claimed any facts, nor does evidence deal solely with facts in any case. Now for fear of being dragged down another rabbit hole I’ll park that point there.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I’ve not claimed any facts, nor does evidence deal solely with facts in any case.

What? I hope like hell you're not in the legal profession.

	Quote:
	What? I hope like hell you're not in the legal profession.

Wonder if he’s being missed over at

http://imnotonetogossipbut.com/forums/

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I’ve not claimed any facts, nor does evidence deal solely with facts in any case. Now for fear of being dragged down another rabbit hole I’ll park that point there.

Ah, a supporter of "Alternative facts"!
With thanks to Kellyanne Conway.

On which topic, this opinion piece;

	Quote:
	Johnson’s Brexit would devastate business – the CBI must be hoping that he’s lying. The biggest whopper is that a vote for him would “end uncertainty over Brexit” Meanwhile, Johnson’s only specific promise is that business’s free access to Europe’s fluid labour market will end. Johnson talks of “setting business free’” to trade with the rest of the world. This is garbage, and he knows it. There are no trade deals, other than trivial ones, with the rest of the world waiting in the wings, let alone that remotely compensate for lost European trade.

Source

Sorry to swing back to "on topic"!

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	I'm curious... could you tell me how tall the towers of the Grossmunster are? I understand that some people travel a very long way to see them.

I think you're going to be needing a wire brush and dettol every time you get home for a while. Brasso's just not strong enough on door knobs

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I’ve not claimed any facts, nor does evidence deal solely with facts in any case. Now for fear of being dragged down another rabbit hole I’ll park that point there.

You’d be snarking all over someone who came out with the same claptrap as you but with an opposing point of view. If you are wrong, it can be pointed out. It’s a forum, not your mates down the pub.

If you thing evidence can’t be equated with fact, you’re either grossly naive or you work for the Tories.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	You’d be snarking all over someone who came out with the same claptrap as you but with an opposing point of view. If you are wrong, it can be pointed out. It’s a forum, not your mates down the pub. If you thing evidence can’t be equated with fact, you’re either grossly naive or you work for the Tories.

Nothing wrong with the Tories, looks like they are currently the most popular party by a huge margin. Remember the majority of people who voted in the referendum voted to leave & the Tories are quite keen to follow the wish of the people.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	You’d be snarking all over someone who came out with the same claptrap as you but with an opposing point of view. If you are wrong, it can be pointed out. It’s a forum, not your mates down the pub. If you thing evidence can’t be equated with fact, you’re either grossly naive or you work for the Tories.

You are continuing to debate with someone that thinks evidence is not based on facts.... the ignore list is a wonderful thing...

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Nothing wrong with the Tories, looks like they are currently the most popular party by a huge margin.

Hmm, no, can't think of any party that was the most popular who went on to do anything bad.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Nothing wrong with the Tories, looks like they are currently the most popular party by a huge margin. Remember the majority of people who voted in the referendum voted to leave & the Tories are quite keen to follow the wish of the people.

You really don't have much of a clue about the UK any more do you...

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	You’d be snarking all over someone who came out with the same claptrap as you but with an opposing point of view. If you are wrong, it can be pointed out. It’s a forum, not your mates down the pub. If you thing evidence can’t be equated with fact, you’re either grossly naive or you work for the Tories.

Yet I haven’t been snarky, and you have not attempted to point out where I am speaking “claptrap”.

Evidence is not the same as fact, however it can use facts. Facts are demonstrably or observationally true, evidence is information (which can be facts) that points to a conclusion. In this case Boris Johnson has said he will not cut corporation tax in order to fund the NHS (information). Couple this together with other information that we have – the Tories have pledged to take public spending up to the highest levels since the 1970s (a far cry from the party of fiscal responsibility of traditional right-wing Conservatives), they plan to set wages (through the minimum wage) of one in four people. This is a heavy spending, higher regulating Conservative Party which is a far cry from the Thatcherite (Right wing) years of deregulation and small government. EVIDENCE that the Conservative Party is taking up the center ground. Feel free to prove me wrong, only do try a little harder than “he’s lying” or “he’ll go back on his promises”.

I will unashamedly be voting for the Tories not because I work for them but because they are the only rational option at this election as they will get Brexit done. I care about democracy, so could never vote for the Lib Dems who are willing to simply ignore the votes of 17.4 million people and unilaterally revoke Article 50. I would never vote for Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party due to Antisemitism, his support for the IRA, his crazy economic plans, his anti-capitalism, his fence sitting on Brexit, his willingness to allow the breakup of the Union and his scrapping of Trident. A vote to the Brexit party may as well be a vote for the Lib Dems or Labour.