The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Mikers]

	Quote:	bowlie
	In the early ‘70s I worked a 4 day week in the accounting department of a now-defunct airline. We worked from 0730 to 1800 but just for four days. Most people took either Fri or Mon off, but a few chose Wednesday. Although it was difficult to measure many were convinced productivity improved. As an example every job has a setup and takedown costs coming from arriving, taking off your boots, finding your slippers, tracking down the tea ladies for that first cuppa, turning on your machines (pre desktop) like calculators, photocopy telex machines, fax machines, reading and distributing the telexes and cables etc. etc. Doing these things 4x a week rather than 5 (out of your 40 weekly hours) created time to actually do some of the real work.. I recall one winter the flight schedules worked out where one could get leave for the airport after work Thursday, fly to Hawaii arriving late Thursday - but generally before midnight. Two and a half full days in paradise before catching the plane back. It arrived around 0630 local giving you time for a quick shower and shave before work. Other than the Christmas/New Years weekends we made this trip every weekend from October to March. At the cost of zero vacation days. As I recall my vacation allotment that year was 6d, 6h and 22 1/2 minutes (based on 4 day week). Flight tickets were free ($8), hotels were never full so we could get airline rates, food and booze as cheap as at home. Ah, I’d do it again.

Great story!

Look I think it’s important to understand the difference. Doing a 4 day week on shifts totalling 40 odd hours is great as effort wise your still putting in the same amount. Labour is talking a ‘real’ 4 day week, ie 32 hours. This is the unworkable bit.

	Quote:	bowlie
	In the early ‘70s I worked a 4 day week in the accounting department of a now-defunct airline.

Any connection?

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	OK, I see you have a problem with the UK. At least you're honest.

I'm not sure how you leaped to that conclusion. In any case, I'm entitled to my opinions on the UK—I'm a British citizen.

[bowlie]

	Quote:
	Any connection?

Actually not ... The next airline that bought them did away with it, and the airline that bought them went tits up.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	bowlie
	In the early ‘70s I worked a 4 day week in the accounting department of a now-defunct airline. We worked from 0730 to 1800 but just for four days. Most people took either Fri or Mon off, but a few chose Wednesday. Although it was difficult to measure many were convinced productivity improved.

Well that's blown me away! I had you pegged at 30 something.

	Quote:	bowlie
	I recall one winter the flight schedules worked out where one could get leave for the airport after work Thursday, fly to Hawaii arriving late Thursday - but generally before midnight. Two and a half full days in paradise before catching the plane back. It arrived around 0630 local giving you time for a quick shower and shave before work. Other than the Christmas/New Years weekends we made this trip every weekend from October to March. At the cost of zero vacation days. As I recall my vacation allotment that year was 6d, 6h and 22 1/2 minutes (based on 4 day week). Flight tickets were free ($8), hotels were never full so we could get airline rates, food and booze as cheap as at home. Ah, I’d do it again.

Finally someone who remembers plating tickets and I so miss agent rates. We used to get any Radisson for £40, Accor for £30-35, etc, but free flights dropped off after 9/11 except for fam trips. Only been to Hawaii a couple of times. Used to stay at the Outrigger Hobron, spend all day swimming from Dukes Bar and grab dinner at the Ala Moana mall, but much preferred Haleiwa.

[Island Monkey]

Posted my vote this afternoon, not that I think it'll do any good. Looking like CONS might just get a majority if the polls are right and then hard Brexit here we come ... if that happens I'm not sure how I'll feel about my birth country anymore.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I've listed benefits. You've just chosen to ignore them, which is fair enough, but at least be honest. So apart from fishing rights, supremacy of UK law, the ability to select who goes and lives in the UK, £15 billion annually, the ability to choose how £4.5 of the UK's own money is spent there, the ability to dictate own trade policy, the ability to set tariff rates, etc. I could go on, but you're not interested. Like 99% of all UK voters, you're not going to change your mind, which is the reason the polls have barely shifted in three and half years. To correct you on a few of your points. The UK will have legally left the EU on January 31st. This is what got everyone in a so much of a panic before the last deadline in October. Nothing is for free as you state (very Corbynesque), however the likes of Hungary, Portugal and Poland get paid as net recipients of EU funds to enjoy access. As for your return of full sovereignty argument, Brexiteers are rightly annoyed because Brexit has been continually frustrated. You will see true sovereignty on December 13th when many of these charlatans lose their seats. The same can't be said for removing Ms Lagarde and Ms von der Leyen.

Hmmm!
"Fishing rights"; currently UK boats have fishing rights in EU waters where there is a wide variety of fish. There are no Cod, Haddock, Salmon or Cold water prawns in UK waters in commercial quantities. I am sure the Brits will learn to love the Herring and Mackerel that are in UK waters.

"The supremacy of UK law", it will be many years before the UK can shake off all EU laws which are imbedded in UK law but the Tories are already working on reducing worker rights.

"The ability to select who goes and lives in the UK", every year for many years there were more non-EU immigrants than EU. Anyway, new trade agreements will include immigration rights.

"The ability to dictate own trade policy" depends on negotiating new free trade agreements and so far all major potential partners have stated UK will only get a deal which is not so good as their EU deal.

"£15 billion annually" Nonsense, as I already explained, UK will be lucky if it can replicate all the EU services without an increase in cost, think of economy of scale (economies of scale are the cost advantages that enterprises obtain due to their scale of operation, with cost per unit of output decreasing with increasing scale).

"The ability to set tariff rates", more nonsense, the WTO already rejected the UK proposals.

"Hungary, Portugal and Poland get paid as net recipients of EU funds to enjoy access" and how is this a benefit to the UK?

"many of these charlatans lose their seats" 90% of the people standing for the next Parliament are existing MPs; who do you think will replace them?

[marton]

Tory MP trying to explain away that the 50,000 new NHS nurses includes 19,000 existing nurses
https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMome...0213243054218/

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	Hmmm! "Fishing rights"; currently UK boats have fishing rights in EU waters where there is a wide variety of fish. There are no Cod, Haddock, Salmon or Cold water prawns in UK waters in commercial quantities. I am sure the Brits will learn to love the Herring and Mackerel that are in UK waters. "The supremacy of UK law", it will be many years before the UK can shake off all EU laws which are imbedded in UK law but the Tories are already working on reducing worker rights. "The ability to select who goes and lives in the UK", every year for many years there were more non-EU immigrants than EU. Anyway, new trade agreements will include immigration rights. "The ability to dictate own trade policy" depends on negotiating new free trade agreements and so far all major potential partners have stated UK will only get a deal which is not so good as their EU deal. "£15 billion annually" Nonsense, as I already explained, UK will be lucky if it can replicate all the EU services without an increase in cost, think of economy of scale (economies of scale are the cost advantages that enterprises obtain due to their scale of operation, with cost per unit of output decreasing with increasing scale). "The ability to set tariff rates", more nonsense, the WTO already rejected the UK proposals. "Hungary, Portugal and Poland get paid as net recipients of EU funds to enjoy access" and how is this a benefit to the UK? "many of these charlatans lose their seats" 90% of the people standing for the next Parliament are existing MPs; who do you think will replace them?

At some point in the next ten to fifteen years there will be a a great shortage of psychologists and counseling services in the UK as people have to deal with reality.

Dictate trade policy and tariffs, only in the BREXITEERS little heads.... junior partners don’t get to dictate any thing, they get to turn up, get told what is on offer, get to decide if the want it and if they are really lucky get a few face saving measures like deciding on if the entire of the UK stays in the customs union or not. There’s the EU trade deal to come, the US, China, India..... eventually reality will start to dawn on the likes of Tony... and heaven help certain politicians when it does.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	Tory MP trying to explain away that the 50,000 new NHS nurses includes 19,000 existing nurses https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMome...0213243054218/

I saw that live. It was painful and made more so by the fact that Nicky Morgan has stepped back from politics, writing this in her resignation letter...

"But the clear impact on my family and the other sacrifices involved, and the abuse for, doing the job of a modern MP can only be justified if, ultimately, Parliament does what it is supposed to do."

It's a pity that she hasn't made the mental leap as to why the atmosphere has became so aggressive when the only reason that she's currently on the campaign trail is that she's filing in for JR-M, who has taken a step back from public life since his horrendous comments regarding the victims of Grenfell. If you talk to people like shit and treat people like shit, you're not going to get roses in return.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	No, but I am ignoring you. You're just looking for another way to get me to reveal where I'm from in the UK. I've already said I don't see how this is relevant to the debate on here.

It's very relevent to the debate and here's why... Someone so secretive over their UK origins wouldn't use their real name as their member name, and your user name is that of a comedic character almost uniquely played by a number of different people, and also very specifically American. It would be very niche for a Brit to name themself after this character when it's creater died 35yrs ago, and I wouldn't have been aware of him myself if I hadn't wantched a hell of a lot of Bill Hicks material. For the Brits who may not be aware of this, imagine if Keith Lemon was played by several different people and not just Leigh Francis.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	I'm not sure how you leaped to that conclusion. In any case, I'm entitled to my opinions on the UK—I'm a British citizen.

The same way as you. You said “some” worn out country. And “its” superseded worm-out traditions. My apologies.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The same way as you. You said “some” worn out country. And “its” superseded worm-out traditions. My apologies.

You don't really understand how pronouns work, do you?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	Hmmm! "Fishing rights"; currently UK boats have fishing rights in EU waters where there is a wide variety of fish. There are no Cod, Haddock, Salmon or Cold water prawns in UK waters in commercial quantities. I am sure the Brits will learn to love the Herring and Mackerel that are in UK waters. "The supremacy of UK law", it will be many years before the UK can shake off all EU laws which are imbedded in UK law but the Tories are already working on reducing worker rights. "The ability to select who goes and lives in the UK", every year for many years there were more non-EU immigrants than EU. Anyway, new trade agreements will include immigration rights. "The ability to dictate own trade policy" depends on negotiating new free trade agreements and so far all major potential partners have stated UK will only get a deal which is not so good as their EU deal. "£15 billion annually" Nonsense, as I already explained, UK will be lucky if it can replicate all the EU services without an increase in cost, think of economy of scale (economies of scale are the cost advantages that enterprises obtain due to their scale of operation, with cost per unit of output decreasing with increasing scale). "The ability to set tariff rates", more nonsense, the WTO already rejected the UK proposals. "Hungary, Portugal and Poland get paid as net recipients of EU funds to enjoy access" and how is this a benefit to the UK? "many of these charlatans lose their seats" 90% of the people standing for the next Parliament are existing MPs; who do you think will replace them?

Had you just conceded just one of my arguments to be correct then I may have carried on, however you’re unable to see [I]any[I] benefits of leaving the EU, even when they’re placed before your very eyes. I expect you’re either still in denial about the result or an EU fanatic. It’s no use debating with a fanatic. Good day, sir.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	At some point in the next ten to fifteen years there will be a a great shortage of psychologists and counseling services in the UK as people have to deal with reality. Dictate trade policy and tariffs, only in the BREXITEERS little heads.... junior partners don’t get to dictate any thing, they get to turn up, get told what is on offer, get to decide if the want it and if they are really lucky get a few face saving measures like deciding on if the entire of the UK stays in the customs union or not. There’s the EU trade deal to come, the US, China, India..... eventually reality will start to dawn on the likes of Tony... and heaven help certain politicians when it does.

Poor Switzerland, poor Australia, poor Canada, how do they possibly manage without the comfort blanket of the EU looking after their every needs? Whilst there is a debate to be had, it’s the absolutism in one argument over the other I can’t abide.

Perhaps in 10-15 years some EU member states will also need counselling once they realise the impact the UK had in applying the buffers to The EU federalist ambitions? Or once qualified majority voting is introduced and the smaller nations have to act on French and German wishes?

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Had you just conceded just one of my arguments to be correct then I may have carried on, however you’re unable to see [I]any[I] benefits of leaving the EU, even when they’re placed before your very eyes. I expect you’re either still in denial about the result or an EU fanatic. It’s no use debating with a fanatic. Good day, sir.

You joined the forum, started a couple of puff threads about tickets and citizenship, then gravitated to the thread which seems to be your real reason for being here, and have been browbeating everyone with your unwavering stance so I think if you are dishing out the ‘fanatic’ label you should perhaps look in the mirror first.

Why are you so obsessed with it? Certainly makes many people question your motives, especially with the fastidious attitude to keeping your own situation secret. Most people post up an intro thread when they join. The exceptions being trolls, dupes and those building their 10 fluff posts on the way to flog their Ikea crap, so you have to forgive people for wondering.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	I never understand why people lose time reading and replying to trolls or fanatics.

Cognitive dissonance?

Intermittent reinforcement?

Masochism?

..........

Take your pick. I wondered that about myself too.

One of the reasons might be that it's hard to filter them out.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Poor Switzerland

"Poor Switzerland" clearly sees the benefit of being in the Single Market, of accepting the 4 freedoms including FMOP, of accepting the rules of the Single Market and the jurisdiction of the ECJ, of making financial contributions to the EU budget. The only real differences to membership is we don't get a say on the rules and we pay twice as much for much of our food.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	...fishing rights...

Yes, you bleated on about this before over net sizes where EU rules forced UK fishermen to use larger net mesh. Perhaps you had better contemplate the reason behind this and the connection to the near collapse of UK stocks of many fish species.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Had you just conceded just one of my arguments to be correct then I may have carried on, however you’re unable to see [I]any[I] benefits of leaving the EU, even when they’re placed before your very eyes. I expect you’re either still in denial about the result or an EU fanatic. It’s no use debating with a fanatic.

You have said nothing that hasn't been debunked many times in this thread. You've brought nothing new to that table. If you had raised a benefit that would have a direct impact upon you, then you would have an audience, but as it stands, the majority here can see the detrimental effects that leaving will have on their day to day lives and future.

Brexit isn't a concept or a theory to be debated here without evidence because to us, it's been an unwelcome part of our lives for almost 4yrs, with many people having very real and personal reasons for wishing the damned thing had never been raised, let alone voted upon.

[bowlie]

	Quote:
	Poor Switzerland, poor Australia, poor Canada,

Switzerland, what Baboon said.

Australia? Their largest trading partner is China. They don’t trade so much with the EU.

Canada? Their largest trading partner is the US but they desperately want to change this. Which is why they have signed a very liberal trade agreement with the EU. Quite a bit more liberal than their USCAM agreement with the US and Mexico. They have given up all protections for their dairy and other industries to get closer to the EU