The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	In that case, why hasn’t she spoken out against Corbyn? Or resigned?

She has spoken out against him on many, many, many occasions, but if you understood British politics you'd know that.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Its a possible theory. So with labour in power 1994-2010, perhaps we could dig out just one clip, one video, one reasonable example without using absolute headcases, of a bunch of tories shouting "labour scum" at some labour politicians. they must be one surely ? something like this but for labour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLEGR4RKgO0

Why? I'm not the one desperately trying to "prove" gods know what. Not my circus.

Maybe the Conservative electorate didn't actually think the Labour MPs were scum.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Why? I'm not the one desperately trying to "prove" gods know what.

Because of your argument that the conservatives are not found in news clips abusing politicians verbally because they were in power, so when labour in power these news items should exist.

If the argument has become too difficult to understand then perhaps as you say, you're better leaving it to the remaining contributors.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	In that case, why hasn’t she spoken out against Corbyn? Or resigned?

She has. She speaks out about many, many things, Corbyn included. At great personal risk.

I'm betting you don't actually know who she is.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Maybe the Conservative electorate didn't actually think the Labour MPs were scum.

This.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Because of your argument that the conservatives are not found in news clips abusing politicians verbally because they were in power, so when labour in power these news items should exist. If the argument has become too difficult to understand then perhaps as you say, you're better leaving it to the remaining contributors.

Not my argument. I was just suggesting a theory.

No need to attempt to insult my intelligence, is there? Rise above the stereotype, eh? When did I say it was too difficult to understand?

Try providing an actual counter argument that doesn't stoop to attacking the poster and isn't, at it's root, basically saying "my Tory is better than your Labour because... ne ne ne ne ne".

	Quote:	amogles
	This. The point we were trying to make all along.

Which point and who is we?

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	In that case, why hasn’t she spoken out against Corbyn? Or resigned?

Because she's got a backbone maybe? Doesn't pander to all the bleating going on?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	She has spoken out against him on many, many, many occasions, but if you understood British politics you'd know that.

	Quote:
	She has. She speaks out about many, many things, Corbyn included. At great personal risk. I'm betting you don't actually know who she is.

Are you both the same person?

This is what Jess Phillips said about Jeremy Corbyn back in 2015:

	Quote:
	"I will do everything I can for Jeremy Corbyn... The day that (Corbyn)... is hurting us more than you are helping us, I won't knife you in the back, I'll knife you in the front"

Four years later, Momentum control the party (and even had a go at removing Jess Phillips), antisemitism is rife in the party, Jeremy Corbyn himself has an approval rating of 20%, and the Cult of Corbyn is very clearly over.

John Wookcock, Joan Ryan, Anne Coffey, Angela Smith, Chris Leslie, Mike Gapes, Luciana Berger, Gavin Shuker, Chukka Umunna and Ian Austin have all looked at the Labour leadership and said, "No, this isn't OK anymore" and left. The likes of Jess Phillips and Jon Ashworth have done nothing, and in doing so are condoning what the Labour Party has become and actively endorsing it. This in spite of believing otherwise. Which is fine, but then they should own it, and be reminded of their inaction, especially when they claim to be anti-racist.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Not my argument. I was just suggesting a theory. No need to attempt to insult my intelligence, is there? Rise above the stereotype, eh? When did I say it was too difficult to understand? Try providing an actual counter argument that doesn't stoop to attacking the poster and isn't, at it's root, basically saying "my Tory is better than your Labour because... ne ne ne ne ne".

I am not insulting your intelligence in the same way im sure you weren't insulting me when you said I was going on about "god knows what".

A survey posted earlier today showed that labour supporters view negatively people who do not follow their political beliefs and this was not as prevalent in conservative voters. This simple fact was then of course challenged as being complete rubbish / not representative / unrealistic.

I have pointed out that the labour left if often seen screaming and shouting at conservative MP's using various insults. Conservative voters do not seem to do the same thing to labour voters.

Of couse, instead of accepting this observation this has been challenged again (such as by yourself saying this could be because the conservatives are in power) to which I have quite rightly pointed out labour have been in power for large lengths of time so the same such news reports should exist, tories screaming at labour MP's, during this window.

To me its all very logical, fair, uncomplicated and clear. If this is an equal activity, and it is not the case that labour lefties are a bunch of thugs, then we should be able to come up with some suitable examples of conservatives berating labour MP's.

up to now, apart from lots of topic changing, pretend confusion, obfuscating, attempts to close the topic because there have been several posts, no one has actually done that.

Therefore I stand by my point, which is very simple: the survey which presents itself as being accurate, is.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	To me even the idea of holding up Tommy Robinson as an example of despicable Toriness simply reeks of desperation.

How do you find the idea of Farage being thrown some milk at?

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Labour politician Jo Cox murdered by right winger. Yes, I imagine it will be pulled apart that he had depression and was an "extreme right winger" yada, yada, yada, but, to be fair, the Tory champions on here would pick apart ANY example given yet, ironically, find that UKIP/Brexit Party's Nigel Farage covered in milkshake and some moron running into an extended finger is the shining proof that the Tories are under attack from the baying mob of Labour supporters. All about the spin.

It's all in the past, all forgotten?

Meantime

	Quote:	amogles
	Exactly. Just a nutter who did something stupid. I am not aware of many Brexiteers supporting what he did. Quite in contrast to that guy who threw a milkshake over Farage, whose video was shared and liked by millions.

Are those millions not allowed to share and like the video?

	Quote:	Mikers
	Therefore I stand by my point, which is very simple: the survey which presents itself as being accurate, is.

Did nobody actually look at the bar chart with anything more than a passing glance?

Nobody seems to "get it" that the "indifferent" statistic is the highest in every case. Look at the cyan column.

The boring truth is that most people treat others literally indifferently when they find out whether they are voting Tory, Labour, Leave or Remain. The raw data builds a much less hysterical picture.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Are you both the same person? This is what Jess Phillips said about Jeremy Corbyn back in 2015: Four years later, Momentum control the party (and even had a go at removing Jess Phillips), antisemitism is rife in the party, Jeremy Corbyn himself has an approval rating of 20%, and the Cult of Corbyn is very clearly over. John Wookcock, Joan Ryan, Anne Coffey, Angela Smith, Chris Leslie, Mike Gapes, Luciana Berger, Gavin Shuker, Chukka Umunna and Ian Austin have all looked at the Labour leadership and said, "No, this isn't OK anymore" and left. The likes of Jess Phillips and Jon Ashworth have done nothing, and in doing so are condoning what the Labour Party has become and actively endorsing it. This in spite of believing otherwise. Which is fine, but then they should own it, and be reminded of their inaction, especially when they claim to be anti-racist.

Nope, we are two independently minded women who may disagree about some things but when we agree... we agree.

	Quote:	Mikers
	I am not insulting your intelligence in the same way im sure you weren't insulting me when you said I was going on about "god knows what". I didn't, actually. I said I wasn't the one trying to prove gods know what. You clearly took that as an excuse. I assume what you're getting at is that Conservatives are more tolerant? Is that it? A survey posted earlier today showed that labour supporters view negatively people who do not follow their political beliefs and this was not as prevalent in conservative voters. This simple fact was then of course challenged as being complete rubbish / not representative / unrealistic. I have pointed out that the labour left if often seen screaming and shouting at conservative MP's using various insults. Conservative voters do not seem to do the same thing to labour voters. Of couse, instead of accepting this observation this has been challenged again (such as by yourself saying this could be because the conservatives are in power) to which I have quite rightly pointed out labour have been in power for large lengths of time so the same such news reports should exist, tories screaming at labour MP's, during this window. To me its all very logical, fair, uncomplicated and clear. If this is an equal activity, and it is not the case that labour lefties are a bunch of thugs, then we should be able to come up with some suitable examples of conservatives berating labour MP's. up to now, apart from lots of topic changing, pretend confusion, obfuscating, attempts to close the topic because there have been several posts, no one has actually done that. Therefore I stand by my point, which is very simple: the survey which presents itself as being accurate, is.

Asked and answered in three separate posts of mine. Further than that I have no interest in your point. I don't think the survey is at all representative and proves nothing. Although I understand you believe it does.

I find your language bias most interesting. Labour voters scream and shout and are thugs. Conservatives might only berate.

against

	Quote:
	Did nobody actually look at the bar chart with anything more than a passing glance? Nobody seems to "get it" that the "indifferent" statistic is the highest in every case. Look at the cyan column. The boring truth is that most people treat others literally indifferently when they find out whether they are voting Tory, Labour, Leave or Remain. The raw data builds a much less hysterical picture.

I got it it. Which is why I said what I said about stats and posted the link about poll questions. Then the collective knickers got all knotted and... here we are. About three steps back from this morning.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Nope, we are two independently minded women who may disagree about some things but when we agree... we agree. Asked and answered in three separate posts of mine. Further than that I have no interest in your point. I don't think the survey is at all representative and proves nothing. Although I understand you believe it does. I find your language bias most interesting. Labour voters scream and shout and are thugs. Conservatives might only berate.

just one example. one.

	Quote:	Mikers
	just one example. one.

I've told you. I don't think your argument is valid and I have told you why. I also wasn't the one you started arguing with about this. Conservative voters likely do not protest because of the simple belief that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm speaking about a "stereotypical " Tory, you understand, largely middle class, educated, privileged etc etc.

Labour voters, traditionally, have a lot more to gain, yet more to lose and are not going to sit idly by.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	I don't think the survey is at all representative and proves nothing.

It looks like a desperate attempt to prove Labour supporters are scum.

	Quote:	greenmount
	It looks like a desperate attempt to prove Labour supporters are scum.

Quite.

It's pretty funny actually when you look at the data. Sangrounder is correct.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Did nobody actually look at the bar chart with anything more than a passing glance? Nobody seems to "get it" that the "indifferent" statistic is the highest in every case. Look at the cyan column. The boring truth is that most people treat others literally indifferently when they find out whether they are voting Tory, Labour, Leave or Remain. The raw data builds a much less hysterical picture.

amongst labour supporters thats 49% indifferent, 41% look negatively. Is that "most" to you ? In the same stroke then looks like most people voted for brexit.