The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	You’re wasting your time. There’s no debate to be had here, this lot would argue day is night for the kicks it gives them. A reputable data analytics firm has posted a poll after using a significant sample size and come out with a clear result. If people don’t want to believe the result then there is nothing that you can say which will convince them otherwise. Save yourself. They can only evade reality for so long.

Your ‘data analytics firm’ poll also shows 49% of those surveyed were ‘indifferent’ to Conservative voters. Or does that not fit with your narrative? Basically MORE people didn’t give a shit than did.

Your poll also doesn’t define the ‘negativity’ experienced by the 41% so, sorry if it’s not taken as deadly seriously as you’re trying to sell it but there’s too much criteria missing for it to represent anything meaningful.

	Quote:
	It's cute, seriously.

I’ve stumbled upon another poll which will support their poor victimised Tories view much better but I’ll let them find it. 10 points and a mince pie to the first one who posts it.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	You’re wasting your time. There’s no debate to be had here, this lot would argue day is night for the kicks it gives them. A reputable data analytics firm has posted a poll after using a significant sample size and come out with a clear result. If people don’t want to believe the result then there is nothing that you can say which will convince them otherwise. Save yourself. They can only evade reality for so long.

"They" don't seem to argue with themselves though, do they?

The "clear result" means almost.....nothing, nothing clear anyway.

	Quote:
	I’ve stumbled upon another poll which will support their poor victimised Tories view much better but I’ll let them find it. 10 points and a mince pie to the first one who posts it.

Ooh I like a challenge . Google fu don't fail me now...

What kind of mince pie? A good one I hope.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	I’ve stumbled upon another poll which will support their poor victimised Tories view much better but I’ll let them find it. 10 points and a mince pie to the first one who posts it.

Really interesting how you move it to almost sniggering enjoyment. Have you actually read up on the threats conservative MP's get ? Especially female ? I wonder if they see it quite as funny when a Momentum activist tells them he's going to kick the shit out of them and their family on social media ?

Mind you, those tory scum, they deserve it, eh ?

[amogles]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Still not sure how this survey is relevant.

You do seem to have a lot to say about a study that you claim not to consider relevant.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Really interesting how you move it to almost sniggering enjoyment. Have you actually read up on the threats conservative MP's get ? Especially female ? I wonder if they see it quite as funny when a Momentum activist tells them he's going to kick the shit out of them and their family on social media ? Mind you, those tory scum, they deserve it, eh ?

The only bit I find funny is the almost obsessive agenda to assert that it’s only Labour supporters doing it. It’s six of one and half a dozen of the other. THAT is the bit I’m finding ridiculous. The fanatical refusal to believe that the right wing element also has its share of head-cases.

But nobody will present you with a detailed set of links so it can’t be true, right.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Really interesting how you move it to almost sniggering enjoyment. Have you actually read up on the threats conservative MP's get ? Especially female ? I wonder if they see it quite as funny when a Momentum activist tells them he's going to kick the shit out of them and their family on social media ? Mind you, those tory scum, they deserve it, eh ?

Not just Tory MPs and not just female MPs. After the last parliamentary debate many MPs were advised not to go home.

Jess Phillips spoke very movingly about this very problem. Females MPs have been threatened with rape.

Please don't try and point score with something as awful and serious as this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ov0Unzg703RdJ8

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1576012134225

There are many more links.


There you go, Mikers. Vile threats against Labour MPs, presumably by non-Labour supporters. I'm assuming the murder of Jo Cox wasn't horrific enough?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	You do seem to have a lot to say about a study that you claim not to consider relevant.

A lot? Not really, a few lines in a couple of posts. I tried to explain why I consider it not relevant. It's called an opinion.
What about you? Why do you consider it relevant to the discussion? I'd like to have an exchange and see more positivity.

	Quote:	greenmount
	A lot? Not really, a few lines in a couple of posts. I tried to explain why I consider it not relevant. It's called an opinion. What about you? Why do you consider it relevant to the discussion? I'd like to have an exchange and see more positivity.

This, absolutely.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	The only bit I find funny is the almost obsessive agenda to assert that it’s only Labour supporters doing it. It’s six of one and half a dozen of the other. THAT is the bit I’m finding ridiculous. The fanatical refusal to believe that the right wing element also has its share of head-cases. But nobody will present you with a detailed set of links so it can’t be true, right.

i believe that was shown in the survey starting this argument where it demonstrated the proportion of labour supporting people viewed people with opposing views negatively 41% of the time, but this figure was far lower for conservative supporters. this is the one single point I made this morning that was interesting. but because it upsets your view that the tories are evil scum that deserve a good kicking, you're never going to give up denying it. we could carry on for weeks.

	Quote:	Mikers
	i believe that was shown in the survey starting this argument where it demonstrated the proportion of labour supporting people viewed people with opposing views negatively 41% of the time, but this figure was far lower for conservative supporters. this is the one single point I made this morning that was interesting. but because it upsets your view that the tories are evil scum that deserve a good kicking, you're never going to give up denying it. we could carry on for weeks.

Where did Sandgrounder, or anyone on this thread, state that in those terms? I do not think they did. I think you're putting quite the spin on things there.


You're the one who keeps harking back to something that means absolutely FA:
"Negatively" in what way?
For how long a time? Once over breakfast or forever and always?

The "data" isn't data.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Not just Tory MPs and not just female MPs. After the last parliamentary debate many MPs were advised not to go home. Jess Phillips spoke very movingly about this very problem. Females MPs have been threatened with rape. Please don't try and point score with something as awful and serious as this. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ov0Unzg703RdJ8 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1576012134225 There are many more links. There you go, Mikers. Vile threats against Labour MPs, presumably by non-Labour supporters. I'm assuming the murder of Jo Cox wasn't horrific enough?

loving the examples. you pick someone actually in prison (Rakeem Malik, currently in HMP Birmingham, is also charged with sending malicious communications to Theresa May, while she was prime minister.) and a right wing terrorist.

To stop me trying to point score please dont use sniggering arrogance to pretend that the labour hard left arent a nasty piece of work.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Mikers
	i believe that was shown in the survey starting this argument where it demonstrated the proportion of labour supporting people viewed people with opposing views negatively 41% of the time, but this figure was far lower for conservative supporters. this is the one single point I made this morning that was interesting. but because it upsets your view that the tories are evil scum that deserve a good kicking, you're never going to give up denying it. we could carry on for weeks.

Not sure Sandgrounder mentioned anywhere she views tories as evil scum that deserve a good kicking, and frankly I'd be very surprised if she'd think so. Can you quote her on that or what does it make you think that way?

[Mikers]

So there, we are I'll call it there.

Ive paused from posting on this (very interesting) thread over the last few months because it just became impossible to debate anything because of the clique who will gang up on any response outweighing any chance of keeping up against the sheer weight of posts.

I'll leggit again for a bit and try again in a few more months.

You are steadily destroying the ability to reasonably debate anythign on thsi thread when it doesn't match your exact labour / remain stance and its frustrating that what used to be a really interesting and highlighting topic of conversation has ended up like this.

I know there will be replies after this reminding me its my fault, I started it, you didnt say that-here-then, this wasnt proved and your point is a lot better than mine, but you just overwhelm people who try to argue.

Even Tony Clifton, whoever he may be, is going to give up eventually.

	Quote:	Mikers
	i believe that was shown in the survey starting this argument where it demonstrated the proportion of labour supporting people viewed people with opposing views negatively 41% of the time, but this figure was far lower for conservative supporters. this is the one single point I made this morning that was interesting. but because it upsets your view that the tories are evil scum that deserve a good kicking, you're never going to give up denying it. we could carry on for weeks.

‘Viewing people negatively’ isn’t the same as ‘giving someone a good kicking’ or threatening them on social media so stop hiding behind a stupid poll to use it to prove an unrelated point.

Nobody has managed to define this negativity criteria of the poll yet.

	Quote:	Mikers
	loving the examples. you pick someone actually in prison (Rakeem Malik, currently in HMP Birmingham, is also charged with sending malicious communications to Theresa May, while she was prime minister.) and a right wing terrorist. To stop me trying to point score please dont use sniggering arrogance to pretend that the labour hard left arent a nasty piece of work.

I picked the top two of a pile of results that came up when I googled Jess Phillips and rape threats. What is the issue with that link? Because it is a right winger having been prosecuted for something awful? I take it if he had been a left wing terrorist you'd have been a happy camper?

I didn't say the hard left aren't potentially very nasty. As Sandgrounder said, there's not a hell of a lot of difference in the behaviours of both extremes. You are putting words into posters mouths.

As for the accusation of "sniggering arrogance"... nope. I merely told you the awful threats were not only made against Tory MPs. It is you who is determined to demonise the left and is also trying to belittle me because I do not agree with you and, to be blunt, because you are behaving in an increasingly aggressive and irrational manner.

Here you go, an equal opportunities threat:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1576013563699

	Quote:	Mikers
	So there, we are I'll call it there. Ive paused from posting on this (very interesting) thread over the last few months because it just became impossible to debate anything because of the clique who will gang up on any response outweighing any chance of keeping up against the sheer weight of posts. I'll leggit again for a bit and try again in a few more months. You are steadily destroying the ability to reasonably debate anythign on thsi thread when it doesn't match your exact labour / remain stance and its frustrating that what used to be a really interesting and highlighting topic of conversation has ended up like this. I know there will be replies after this reminding me its my fault, I started it, you didnt say that-here-then, this wasnt proved and your point is a lot better than mine, but you just overwhelm people who try to argue. Even Tony Clifton, whoever he may be, is going to give up eventually.

So you're taking your metaphorical ball home because three people on the vast interweb disagree with you and dare to have opinions of their own? And can provide information or views that do not correspond with yours? Hypocrite, much? You've made unfounded and rather nasty accusations and have decided enough is enough because... ?


I see MusicChick agrees with you so it must be true...

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	I picked the top two of a pile of results that came up when I googled Jess Phillips and rape threats. What is the issue with that link? Because it is a right winger having been prosecuted for something awful? I take it if he had been a left wing terrorist you'd have been a happy camper?

This remains one of my favourite comebacks from Jess to a vile email...

https://twitter.com/jessphillips/sta...82475622191105

I'd have her for PM in a heart beat. And never forgetting the wonderful 'Olives' speech that I've posted before. She's 100% my kind of gal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPjdnMF3C-s

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	This remains one of my favourite comebacks from Jess to a vile email... https://twitter.com/jessphillips/sta...82475622191105 I'd have her for PM in a heart beat. And never forgetting the wonderful 'Olives' speech that I've posted before. She's 100% my kind of gal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPjdnMF3C-s

Jess Phillips will never be leader of the Labour Party as things stand as the
membership will never vote her in.