The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	This is the 4th election that Labour have not been able to convince the owners of cars, iPhones, 55 inch TV's they are subject to abject poverty.

There's over 14 million people living in poverty in the UK. Love the way you completely dismiss them.

https://fullfact.org/economy/poverty...s-and-figures/

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Mikers
	That's a lesson for her in life, don't say you'll reverse a democratic vote unilaterally.

There is nothing undemocratic about proposing a course of action and seeking a mandate to carry it out. That is how change happens in a democracy.

[V__]

It must have been the Russians again

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	There's over 14 million people living in poverty in the UK. Love the way you completely dismiss them.

Well unless you believe the result happened by voter fraud, a large portion of those people voted Tory.... How they will feel after seeing the reality of BREXIT in the coming months and years remain to be seen. Will Boris deliver their dreams? I doubt it, but then I also doubt Labour will be in a better position by the next election either.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	What is frightening is how out of touch you & your friends are. I think they thought by voting Tory both could be achieved.

Out of touch? Do you realise 56.4% DIDN'T vote for the Tories? About 54% voted for parties that were either pro remain or at least a second referendum?

Only the perverted UK electoral system could deliver this result and then have the PM crow about his mandate. From the popular vote he doesn't have one.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	...a large portion of those people voted Tory....

I don't know that, neither do you. One way or the other.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	There is nothing undemocratic about proposing a course of action and seeking a mandate to carry it out. That is how change happens in a democracy.

Fortunately a good set of British people do see it as an attempt at distorting democracy rather than enforcing it, so voted her out. It's great when people see through people trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Out of touch? Do you realise 56.4% DIDN'T vote for the Tories? About 54% voted for parties that were either pro remain or at least a second referendum? Only the perverted UK electoral system could deliver this result and then have the PM crow about his mandate. From the popular vote he doesn't have one.

ta daaaaaaaaaaaaa! and there it is. We are about, perhaps 3 hours into our new term and the first instance of "He doesnt have a mandate" is out of the blocks.

	Quote:	Mikers
	ta daaaaaaaaaaaaa! and there it is. We are about, perhaps 3 hours into our new term and the first instance of "He doesnt have a mandate" is out of the blocks.

Shame that it's true, isn't it.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Shame that it's true, isn't it.

Not a shame at all really. Means you can stand on your little soap box like the bloke on Life of Brian telling passers by your version of democracy according to your specific logic of voting.

Fortunately the public believe in fairness.

[Troublawesome]

	Quote:
	Shame that it's true, isn't it.

You lost, deal with it. Don't be a sore loser.

I'm also in favour of Remain but give credit when it's due. The Tories have sweeped the nation and eliminated all their enemies: BXP, Labour and LD altogether.

They smashed it. Boris and Trump understand what the people want to hear and give it to them in spades, the other parties don't.

Like Greece went through adolescence with Tsipras, Italy with Salvini and Hungary with Orban now the UK needs to have it's playtime with the biggest populist ever, even bigger than Trump in my book. My bet is he'll do unspeakable harm to the country but he'll have at least 2 terms easily, the crowds love him.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Not a shame at all really. Means you can stand on your little soap box like the bloke on Life of Brian telling passers by your version of democracy according to your specific logic of voting. Fortunately the public believe in fairness.

So your definition of fairness is that 43% get to dictate to the majority?

Fortunately I live in a country that has a fair electoral system.

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	You lost, deal with it. Don't be a sore loser. I'm also in favour of Remain but give credit when it's due. The Tories have sweeped the nation and eliminated all their enemies: BXP, Labour and LD altogether. They smashed it. Boris and Trump understand what the people want to hear and give it to them in spades, the other parties don't. Like Greece went through adolescence with Tsipras, Italy with Salvini and Hungary with Orban now the UK needs to have it's playtime with the biggest populist ever, even bigger than Trump in my book. My bet is he'll do unspeakable harm to the country but he'll have at least 2 terms easily, the crowds love him.

I think this must be an easier thing to say than it will be to live in it. It's probably very different if you're outside the UK.

Lots of seemingly malicious glee in this thread now. It's a shame.

I'm a realist, this is the result we must accept, however it doesn't stop my worry about where we go from here. There is very much an air of gloom where I live.

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	You lost, deal with it. Don't be a sore loser.

Nothing to do with sore loser. I have often commented on here in the past about the idiotic UK electoral system and I'm not going to suddenly accept it now.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	So your definition of fairness is that 43% get to dictate to the majority? Fortunately I live in a country that has a fair electoral system.

my definition of fairness is that the conservatives won with 369 seats giving them a majority in the house of commons.

I don't like the conservatives, but the conservatives won, fairly.

Yesterday I was scrolling through fire-breathing FB posts about how a Labour vote would be worse than kicking a puppy to death, and Labour voters were basically sub-intelligent and sub-human.

Today, those same people are posting vomit-inducing "let's all move forward together in peachy peace and harmony" memes with rainbows, hearts and fluff.

	Quote:
	There's over 14 million people living in poverty in the UK. Love the way you completely dismiss them. https://fullfact.org/economy/poverty...s-and-figures/

I love web sites like that. Here's a snippet, about the definition of "poverty"

	Quote:
	The definition used by a number of international organisations (such as the UN and the World Bank) is that you cannot afford the basic needs of life—food, clothing, shelter and so on. A new way of measuring poverty One of the most comprehensive measures of poverty on offer at the moment is produced by the Social Metrics Commission (SMC). ... They found that in 2017/18: An estimated 14.3 million people are in poverty in the UK

Which translates roughly as "Yes, there's a standard definition but we're going to ignore it and use our own, so we can just make up our own numbers".

That they sucker people into believing and quoting their stats is not something I love though, except when it makes refuting an argument ludicrously easy.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	No result is a winner for me, but main bit ive picked up is Swinson has lost her seat! That's a lesson for her in life, don't say you'll reverse a democratic vote unilaterally.

LOL, yeah.
Because nothing screams "get Brexit done" more than switching your vote from her to the SNP.
You are just seeing what you want to see.

	Quote:
	I love web sites like that. Here's a snippet, about the definition of "poverty" Which translates roughly as "Yes, there's a standard definition but we're going to ignore it and use our own, so we can just make up our own numbers". That they sucker people into believing and quoting their stats is not something I love though, except when it makes refuting an argument ludicrously easy.

Before you diss it perhaps you should look at what they are actually doing. The old UK definition was an over-simple anyone below 60% of average income. The new definition takes more account of individual circumstances, increases numbers in some areas but decreases in others.

It might interest you to learn the SMC was "established by the Baroness Stroud, a Tory peer and the head of the Legatum Institute, a think tank which has taken a very pro-Brexit line in recent years and has strong links with the Christian wing of the Conservative Party."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a8541571.html

	Quote:
	I love web sites like that. Here's a snippet, about the definition of "poverty" Which translates roughly as "Yes, there's a standard definition but we're going to ignore it and use our own, so we can just make up our own numbers". That they sucker people into believing and quoting their stats is not something I love though, except when it makes refuting an argument ludicrously easy.

Smug comments like this make me feel ill. Maybe some folk on here should spend time working with those who live below the poverty line than perhaps they wouldn't be so glib. But it is EF, after all. It's easy to forget that those numbers represent real people. Real children.