The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	... and ensure labour remains unelectable for another election cycle or two? In earnest, despite the entertainment of seeing Labour repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot, democracy requires a competent opposition and needs to be able to challenge the government on an eye to eye level. If you can't have that, democracy becomes a farce. I therefore wish that somebody competent steps into Corbyn's shoes.

And the Labour party would start having a proper decorative role in the eternal opposition benches? It doesn't seem very sincere to me.

There was too much gloating over the Labour's massive defeat.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Why should this be a joke? It’s been talked about for a long time that the next Labour leader should be a woman. Stephen Kinnock has today said so too.

Not a black, gay woman??!!

You homophobic, misogynist bigot!

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	amogles
	There is no doubt that Churchill was a great and courageous leader, and that we owe him a huge debt of gratitude. One daren't even think what the world might be like today had he been less resolute.

He was a great wartime leader and we were lucky to have him at that time.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The Labour Party should have split years ago, but the likes of Tom Watson, Yvette Cooper and Jess Phillips didn’t have the backbone to do it!

Nothing to do with backbone.
Reminds me of OH's dad who told his sons they must "fight apartheid from the inside out". Those three MPs didn't want to surrender their party to the Corbynistas.

As for the next Labour leader, it should be the best candidate regardless of any feature of their being. I reckon Johnson would have a run for his money with Eagle. She'd scare the crap out of him when she's in full flow, but she's not my personal top tip.

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	greenmount
	There was too much gloating over the Labour's massive defeat.

That's par for the course in a democracy.

[fatmanfilms]

Armenia-EU trade

Armenia benefits from the EU's Generalised Scheme of Preferences plus (GSP+) trading initiative. This offers Armenian exports advantageous access to the EU market by allowing complete duty suspension across approximately 66% of all EU tariff lines. More than 96% of EU imports eligible for GSP+ preferences from Armenia entered the EU with zero duties in 2017. The EU is Armenia's biggest export market, trade with the EU accounts for around 26.7% of Armenia's total trade.[47] EU-Armenia trade increased by 15% in 2018 reaching a total value of €1.1 billion.[48]

EU assistance to Armenia

The EU is the biggest provider of financial support and a key reform partner in Armenia.[48] As part of the European Neighbourhood Policy, Armenia benefits from EU financial assistance. The amount allocated to Armenia depends on Armenia's commitment to reforms. Certain EU reform targets need to be met before money is paid. The planned amount of EU assistance to Armenia for the period 2017-2020 is up to €185 million.[49][50]

So, Armenia is part of a ‘friends of the EU’ group enjoying significant almost level playing field trade with the EU but without the associated risks attached, without the membership costs attached AND it gets EU payments.

My question is...WTF is that all about?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	the Diane Abbot bit

Why would I pick a strong & capable leader for the opposition? The forum seems a little slower than normal after the election results.

My views have been slagged off on this thread for months, looks like I have been spot on. Living in an echo chamber is very dangerous

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	My question is...WTF is that all about?

It's called foreign aid. Rich nations give it to poorer nations to help them out. It can be in the form of loans, credit, infrastructure, technical or trade assistance.

It's an interesting concept - you should look it up.

The UK naturally is too wealthy to qualify for aid. At least for the next few years.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why would I pick a strong & capable leader for the opposition? The forum seems a little slower than normal after the election results. My views have been slagged off on this thread for months, looks like I have been spot on. Living in an echo chamber is very dangerous

If you have weak and incapable opposition it's not good for ANYONE on either side of the political divide. Then you would see your famous echo chamber populating the Houses of Parliament.

Surely you can see the obvious problems with your view?

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Armenia-EU trade Armenia benefits from the EU's Generalised Scheme of Preferences plus (GSP+) trading initiative. This offers Armenian exports advantageous access to the EU market by allowing complete duty suspension across approximately 66% of all EU tariff lines. More than 96% of EU imports eligible for GSP+ preferences from Armenia entered the EU with zero duties in 2017. The EU is Armenia's biggest export market, trade with the EU accounts for around 26.7% of Armenia's total trade.[47] EU-Armenia trade increased by 15% in 2018 reaching a total value of €1.1 billion.[48] EU assistance to Armenia The EU is the biggest provider of financial support and a key reform partner in Armenia.[48] As part of the European Neighbourhood Policy, Armenia benefits from EU financial assistance. The amount allocated to Armenia depends on Armenia's commitment to reforms. Certain EU reform targets need to be met before money is paid. The planned amount of EU assistance to Armenia for the period 2017-2020 is up to €185 million.[49][50] So, Armenia is part of a ‘friends of the EU’ group enjoying significant almost level playing field trade with the EU but without the associated risks attached, without the membership costs attached AND it gets EU payments. My question is...WTF is that all about?

Just wait until you see the EU Least Developed Countries list, it will blow your mind

I know what you mean though, what sort of a liberal snowflake cuck helps out a neighbor?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why would I pick a strong & capable leader for the opposition? The forum seems a little slower than normal after the election results. My views have been slagged off on this thread for months, looks like I have been spot on. Living in an echo chamber is very dangerous

1. The Tories that I speak to are all of the opinion that a government, any government, functions at it's best with a strong opposition constantly holding them to account. It prevents laziness r.e. legislation, debate, etc...

2. I've had visitors for 2 weeks who only flew back to the UK on Saturday, so had a lot of reading to do here yesterday. My visitors are already missing SBB.

3. Your views are still unformulated, in disarray, and in many cases, plain wrong.

4. See No.1.

[Blueangel]

Just read this from Petrit Selimi, former Foreign Minister of Kosovo, and am reminded that approx. 30,000 Kosovars still live in the UK.


https://twitter.com/Petrit/status/1206201371713851392

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Just read this from Petrit Selimi, former Foreign Minister of Kosovo, and am reminded that approx. 30,000 Kosovars still live in the UK. Attachment 138346 https://twitter.com/Petrit/status/1206201371713851392

I don't understand. It is a reaction to Jeremy Corbyn's video statement.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Just read this from Petrit Selimi, former Foreign Minister of Kosovo, and am reminded that approx. 30,000 Kosovars still live in the UK. Attachment 138346 https://twitter.com/Petrit/status/1206201371713851392

For the benefit of those who are not up to speed on the back story here, what did Corbyn do or say that upsets the Kosovans so?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	1. The Tories that I speak to are all of the opinion that a government, any government, functions at it's best with a strong opposition constantly holding them to account. It prevents laziness r.e. legislation, debate, etc... 2. I've had visitors for 2 weeks who only flew back to the UK on Saturday, so had a lot of reading to do here yesterday. My visitors are already missing SBB. 3. Your views are still unformulated, in disarray, and in many cases, plain wrong. 4. See No.1.

You have never admitted that the UK will leave the EU or that the Tories would win, how is that an informed opinion or in any way accurate of the reality?

With the current conservative majority, caused largely by the breakdown in democracy (which you championed) the opposition is totally irrelevant until the next election. Own goal I would say.

[aSwissInTheUS]

	Quote:	amogles
	For the benefit of those who are not up to speed on the back story here, what did Corbyn do or say that upsets the Kosovans so?

	Quote:
	Less than 20 years ago, Nato took military action against the genocidal regime of Slobodan Milosevic in Serbia; Corbyn’s response was not just to oppose this campaign but to deny outright Milosevic’s war crimes.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...ord-on-defence

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	You're very big on backbone, I notice. And exclamatory phrases. And

Back to criticising my use of English again, easier for you to do that than sticking to the topic at hand.

I had worried that you may not be able to get over the disappointment of last weeks election result. I'm glad to see though that your period of reflection has lasted as long as that of the Labour Party's though and it's back to business as usual!

	Quote:
	It's very easy language to add pizzazz to one's point of view without actually having to quantify anything or bring anything resembling fact.

Perhaps I would be better served adding smiley faces after everything I write to compensate for my lack of constructive input!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	He was a great wartime leader and we were lucky to have him at that time. Nothing to do with backbone. Reminds me of OH's dad who told his sons they must "fight apartheid from the inside out". Those three MPs didn't want to surrender their party to the Corbynistas. As for the next Labour leader, it should be the best candidate regardless of any feature of their being. I reckon Johnson would have a run for his money with Eagle. She'd scare the crap out of him when she's in full flow, but she's not my personal top tip.

The Labour Party is lost to the hard left, this much is clear and it's been that way ever since Jeremy Corbyn's election as leader. How can it be expected that it be changed from within when the membership holds so much power? The leader and policy are chosen by the membership, and the membership is Momentum. The only way to end it is to leave.

It should never be forgotten that the likes of Yvette Cooper, Jess Phillips and Tom Watson through a combination of their cowardice, inaction and naivety did nothing more than enable Corbyn and his brand of Jew hating Marxist politics. To remain so far from the leadership is the price they must now pay, in a similar way the the Labour Party is paying the price for its party's politics and their treatment of the Jewish community.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Back to criticising my use of English again, easier for you to do that than sticking to the topic at hand. I had worried that you may not be able to get over the disappointment of last weeks election result. I'm glad to see though that your period of reflection has lasted as long as that of the Labour Party's though and it's back to business as usual! Perhaps I would be better served adding smiley faces after everything I write to compensate for my lack of constructive input!

Not a criticism, an observation! You know, like the ones you make! Too many exclamation marks rob the writing of actual impact!


If you think emojis would assist in that regard, sure.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The Labour Party is lost to the hard left, this much is clear and it's been that way ever since Jeremy Corbyn's election as leader. How can it be expected that it be changed from within when the membership holds so much power? The leader and policy are chosen by the membership, and the membership is Momentum. The only way to end it is to leave. It should never be forgotten that the likes of Yvette Cooper, Jess Phillips and Tom Watson through a combination of their cowardice, inaction and naivety did nothing more than enable... blah blah blah

It's not clear. It's your view. If you didn't write in grandiose-sounding sound bites and actually said something instead that didn't sound like a smug admonishment, I'd be more inclined to listen to you. You're banging on about the treatment of the Jewish population. Again. Why? What on earth is the point you are trying to make?


Phillips and Cooper have spoken out about anti-Semitism, Phillips has been very critical of Corbyn.

Your calling those three politicians naive apathetic cowards speaks volumes about you. I really don't think you know much about them at all. They must just come under the heading of "not Tory" I suppose.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Perhaps I would be better served adding smiley faces after everything I write to compensate for my lack of constructive input!

Whatever turns you on.

Maybe just start off with avoiding trying to pass off your opinion as fact?

	Quote:
	You're banging on about the treatment of the Jewish population. Again. Why? What on earth is the point you are trying to make?

I wondered that, too. There’s a whole separate Corbyn thread for people to clutch at their pearls and show their outrage in minute detail. No idea why it spilled over into the thread about Brexit.

Mods: any chance of a trim?