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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #25701  
Old 19.12.2019, 12:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Please don't overdo the praise of Blair.
I'm not heaping undue praise on Tony Blair, just recognising the reasons he won power and defended it in two further elections. He was a visionary politician that had crossover appeal, which is why he was so successful in elections. As an example, "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" is so simple, yet the message was clear and carried broad appeal.

I'm not however going to defend Tony Blair's record in power. To my shame I voted for him in 1997, more to give the John Major's entitled government a kick than anything. The Tory scandals, abuses of power and downright corruption in the mid nineties were enough to turn me away back then.
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  #25702  
Old 19.12.2019, 12:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Britain First is pretty much an insignificant fringe group even among the insignificant fringe groups, that somehow manages to grab the headlines every so often. They are not at all in the same category of influence as Momentum is, as this article seems to be suggesting.
Being bigoted isn't a competition, and Britain First have a sustained and significant presence on facebook with many people innocently, ignorantly or deliberately sharing their memes, particularly around Rememberance Day. They've become the 'acceptable' face of bigotry in the UK.

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Nobody has the possibility to extract themselves from their impressions.

Btw.. after reading you.. my pick would immediately be Dan Jarvis.
Speaking of impressions, watching interviews with Jarvis, I can immediately see how Rory Bremner would portray him. He doesn't speak with his hands but does a sharp head jab to add emphasis.

Jarvis' backstory is above and beyond, even if you ignore his military career. He had a massive life change when his wife died of cancer at 43. He passionately sings the praises of the NHS staff who cared for her. He refused requests to stand in the last leadership contest because he believed his children were too young and had endured enough upheaval in their young lives. I absolutely love that and respect him for it, and that's the thing....

If someone is going to put themselves in a position where they believe they can make decisions that affect my life, I need to have at least a modicum of respect for them. I need to see occasions when they've put the needs of others above their own ambition. I need to see that they can carry the weight of responsibility fairly and dutifully.
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  #25703  
Old 19.12.2019, 15:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

In an effort to join the healing process with those feeling a sense of disappointment, or perhaps even resentment, at the outcome of our General Election, may I offer this crumb of wisdom from the Bible?

JOB 5:2
For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
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  #25704  
Old 19.12.2019, 15:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In an effort to join the healing process with those feeling a sense of disappointment, or perhaps even resentment, at the outcome of our General Election, may I offer this crumb of wisdom from the Bible?

JOB 5:2
For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.



Duck me, and i thought i'd seen it all before !


3 Hail Mary's for Fatmans, please
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  #25705  
Old 19.12.2019, 16:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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To my shame I voted for him in 1997
How so? Did you live in Co Durham?
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  #25706  
Old 19.12.2019, 17:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Duck me, and i thought i'd seen it all before !


3 Hail Mary's for Fatmans, please
Don't think I heard that one since I was in school...
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  #25707  
Old 19.12.2019, 17:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Duck me, and i thought i'd seen it all before !


3 Hail Mary's for Fatmans, please
Maybe he had a stroke?

Hard to imagine FMF holding hands and singing Kumbaya .
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  #25708  
Old 19.12.2019, 18:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Maybe he had a stroke?

Hard to imagine FMF holding hands and singing Kumbaya .



..maybe he's mellowing with age and now has a wife to look after him
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  #25709  
Old 19.12.2019, 22:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

After a brief post-election spike now as more & more details emerge of Boris's plans so the value of the £ slides down

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Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights, unaccompanied refugee children and parliament’s say over the future relationship stripped out.
Source

Typical politician; promise everything and deliver something else.
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  #25710  
Old 19.12.2019, 22:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The survival of the UK as a single country can no longer be guaranteed after last Thursday's election, for 2 key reasons:

1) Scotland - the Scottish Conservatives ran on a 'No to Indyref2' ticket, for the 3rd time in 3 consecutive elections (they basically have no other way to appeal to voters). They lost 7 seats out of 13 - all to the SNP - and the 6 survivors all have much smaller majorities. This does not bode well for them in the crucial May 2021 Scottish Parliament election. If they take a similar beating there, and especially if it leads to either another SNP + Green pro-independence majority, or a 2nd SNP overall majority, then Westminster is going to have big trouble blocking a 2nd independence referendum. The Scottish Secretary, Alister Jack, effectively admitted on a BBC Radio programme - only days before last week's General Election - that a pro-independence majority at Holyrood after May 2021 would constitute a democratic mandate for indyref2.......

2) Northern Ireland - for the first time in decades, pro UK MPs do not form a majority of its MPs. And with Sinn Fein using Brexit to push for an Irish unity referendum, the clause in the Good Friday Agreement asking for one if support reaches 60% and the effective partitioning of NI - in economic terms - from the rest of the UK in Johnson's revamped WA, the chances of an Irish unity referendum are rising in my view.

3) Brexit - has caused many people, in all parts of the UK, to question whether it is worth saving the Union at all. Polls have shown that, in England, more people would accept Scottish independence if it meant securing Brexit (thereby offering clear evidence that English nationalism is a driving force behind Brexit). In Scotland, people like me who supported the Union in 2014 are now changing their minds, partly in horror at what the Conservative Party in England has now become since 2016. It is more of an ideological, English nationalist party than it was before. An independent Scotland in either EFTA/EEA or the EU, is now looking much more attractive......

The consequences of David Cameron's botched attempt to save his party by inflicting its own internal dispute on the entire country, may include yet include the break-up of the UK. Boris Johnson, one of the most dishonest, opportunistic chancers ever to occupy Downing Street, may yet find himself as the the last Prime Minister of the UK........

Chris
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  #25711  
Old 20.12.2019, 01:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The survival of the UK as a single country can no longer be guaranteed after last Thursday's election, for 2 key reasons:
The dissolution of the UK has been a certainty since the date the GFA was signed.... nothing that happened last week changes that. But what nationalists in NI forget is that Ireland has to agree to it too. And we’re talking about a country where the government cannot get people to pay water rates never mind the costs of running NI, so it might not be so easy to achieve.

What happens to Great Britain remains to be seen.
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  #25712  
Old 20.12.2019, 09:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In an effort to join the healing process with those feeling a sense of disappointment, or perhaps even resentment, at the outcome of our General Election, may I offer this crumb of wisdom from the Bible?

JOB 5:2
For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:

Amen brother!
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  #25713  
Old 20.12.2019, 09:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The survival of the UK as a single country can no longer be guaranteed after last Thursday's election, for 2 key reasons:

1) Scotland - the Scottish Conservatives ran on a 'No to Indyref2' ticket, for the 3rd time in 3 consecutive elections (they basically have no other way to appeal to voters). They lost 7 seats out of 13 - all to the SNP - and the 6 survivors all have much smaller majorities. This does not bode well for them in the crucial May 2021 Scottish Parliament election. If they take a similar beating there, and especially if it leads to either another SNP + Green pro-independence majority, or a 2nd SNP overall majority, then Westminster is going to have big trouble blocking a 2nd independence referendum. The Scottish Secretary, Alister Jack, effectively admitted on a BBC Radio programme - only days before last week's General Election - that a pro-independence majority at Holyrood after May 2021 would constitute a democratic mandate for indyref2.......

2) Northern Ireland - for the first time in decades, pro UK MPs do not form a majority of its MPs. And with Sinn Fein using Brexit to push for an Irish unity referendum, the clause in the Good Friday Agreement asking for one if support reaches 60% and the effective partitioning of NI - in economic terms - from the rest of the UK in Johnson's revamped WA, the chances of an Irish unity referendum are rising in my view.

3) Brexit - has caused many people, in all parts of the UK, to question whether it is worth saving the Union at all. Polls have shown that, in England, more people would accept Scottish independence if it meant securing Brexit (thereby offering clear evidence that English nationalism is a driving force behind Brexit). In Scotland, people like me who supported the Union in 2014 are now changing their minds, partly in horror at what the Conservative Party in England has now become since 2016. It is more of an ideological, English nationalist party than it was before. An independent Scotland in either EFTA/EEA or the EU, is now looking much more attractive......

The consequences of David Cameron's botched attempt to save his party by inflicting its own internal dispute on the entire country, may include yet include the break-up of the UK. Boris Johnson, one of the most dishonest, opportunistic chancers ever to occupy Downing Street, may yet find himself as the the last Prime Minister of the UK........

Chris
Why is it the poor Brexit voting Welsh are always get forgotten when people talk about the Union? And likewise, why is Scottish nationalism always allowed to get away with portrayal as a romantic notion whereas English nationalism is portrayed as something far more sinister?

The SNP have nothing else other than Indy Ref 2 to boost their chances in 2021. They won’t be able to avoid scrutiny of their record in government forever and for that reason I don’t expect them to win a majority.
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  #25714  
Old 20.12.2019, 09:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why is it the poor Brexit voting Welsh are always get forgotten when people talk about the Union? And likewise, why is Scottish nationalism always allowed to get away with portrayal as a romantic notion whereas English nationalism is portrayed as something far more sinister?

The SNP have nothing else other than Indy Ref 2 to boost their chances in 2021. They won’t be able to avoid scrutiny of their record in government forever and for that reason I don’t expect them to win a majority.
You sound like a Remainer now.


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I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:

Amen brother!

This thread keeps delivering. :-)
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  #25715  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This thread keeps delivering. :-)
Good grief! 😂
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  #25716  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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To my shame I voted for him in 1997, more to give the John Major's entitled government a kick than anything. The Tory scandals, abuses of power and downright corruption in the mid nineties were enough to turn me away back then.
You were 18 or over in 1997? You write like somebody in their teens even now.
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  #25717  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Last night I watched a horror on Channel 4 called The Cure about the last time Labour were in charge of the NHS. 1200 dead in one hospital!!! Sad to think that people still believe that Labour would have run the NHS better or that the NHS is an institution that should be preserved.
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  #25718  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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last night i watched a horror on channel 4 called the cure about the last time labour were in charge of the nhs. 1200 dead in one hospital!!! Sad to think that people still believe that labour would have run the nhs better or that the nhs is an institution that should be preserved.
QED (annoyingly autoconverted to lowercase unless I include a longer sentence)
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  #25719  
Old 20.12.2019, 10:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Last night I watched a horror on Channel 4 called The Cure about the last time Labour were in charge of the NHS. 1200 dead in one hospital!!! Sad to think that people still believe that Labour would have run the NHS better or that the NHS is an institution that should be preserved.
For the sake of balance, this was 400 more than average or expected for a hospital of that size.

Still an appalling number of deaths but your figure of 1200 is not correctly presented.
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Old 20.12.2019, 10:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Last night I watched a horror on Channel 4 called The Cure about the last time Labour were in charge of the NHS. 1200 dead in one hospital!!! Sad to think that people still believe that Labour would have run the NHS better or that the NHS is an institution that should be preserved.
Shush now, boys don't cry.
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