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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #25721  
Old 20.12.2019, 12:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Workers' Rights watered down
Promise to take refugee children watered down
Sovreign Parliament's decisionmaking on Brexit blocked.

The Turkeys have certainly voted for Xmas.
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  #25722  
Old 20.12.2019, 12:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Workers' Rights watered down
Promise to take refugee children watered down
Sovreign Parliament's decisionmaking on Brexit blocked.

The Turkeys have certainly voted for Xmas.
And the rest. Christ. Whst a mess.
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  #25723  
Old 20.12.2019, 13:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Workers' Rights watered down
Promise to take refugee children watered down
Sovreign Parliament's decisionmaking on Brexit blocked.

The Turkeys have certainly voted for Xmas.
I wonder if “Remainer Regret” will soon be entering the political lexicon? I wonder if those Remainers that had the chance for a softer Brexit yet gambled on trying to prevent it all together will begin to regret their actions? I wonder if all those Remainers that cheered with glee as long standing political conventions were systematically torn down in the pursuit of stopping Brexit will lament what they did? Scrutiny of Parliament, the role of the speaker, politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on, the use of the courts to rule on political matters, all these political no-nos done in an attempt to thwart Brexit.

Now Boris Johnson has a massive majority, and will quite rightly look one by one at all the tools that were used to thwart him. The meaningful vote is to go. Parliamentary updates on the how trade negotiations are going is to go. The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is to go. The judiciary is to be reassessed, don’t be surprised if the role of the Supreme Court and political appointments are a part of this! Parliamentary scrutiny didn’t matter when Remainer MPs wanted to ram through complex legislation within a day in order to block Brexit, why should it matter now?

As the Boris Johnson Government gets going, I wonder if all those Remainers will finally stop and realise the damage that has been done and ultimately how pointless it all was. Brexit will now be harder than that which was originally on the table, and political convention is the collateral victim. They cannot complain as they are the ones that led us down this path.
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  #25724  
Old 20.12.2019, 13:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder if “Remainer Regret” will soon be entering the political lexicon? I wonder if those Remainers that had the chance for a softer Brexit yet gambled on trying to prevent it all together will begin to regret their actions? I wonder if all those Remainers that cheered with glee as long standing political conventions were systematically torn down in the pursuit of stopping Brexit will lament what they did? Scrutiny of Parliament, the role of the speaker, politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on, the use of the courts to rule on political matters, all these political no-nos done in an attempt to thwart Brexit.

Now Boris Johnson has a massive majority, and will quite rightly look one by one at all the tools that were used to thwart him. The meaningful vote is to go. Parliamentary updates on the how trade negotiations are going is to go. The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is to go. The judiciary is to be reassessed, don’t be surprised if the role of the Supreme Court and political appointments are a part of this! Parliamentary scrutiny didn’t matter when Remainer MPs wanted to ram through complex legislation within a day in order to block Brexit, why should it matter now?

As the Boris Johnson Government gets going, I wonder if all those Remainers will finally stop and realise the damage that has been done and ultimately how pointless it all was. Brexit will now be harder than that which what was originally on the table, and political convention is the collateral victim. They cannot complain as they are the ones that led us down this path.
I didn't realise the ERG were remainers. Learn something new every day I suppose.
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  #25725  
Old 20.12.2019, 13:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder if “Remainer Regret” will soon be entering the political lexicon? I wonder if those Remainers that had the chance for a softer Brexit yet gambled on trying to prevent it all together will begin to regret their actions? I wonder if all those Remainers that cheered with glee as long standing political conventions were systematically torn down in the pursuit of stopping Brexit will lament what they did? Scrutiny of Parliament, the role of the speaker, politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on, the use of the courts to rule on political matters, all these political no-nos done in an attempt to thwart Brexit.

Now Boris Johnson has a massive majority, and will quite rightly look one by one at all the tools that were used to thwart him. The meaningful vote is to go. Parliamentary updates on the how trade negotiations are going is to go. The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is to go. The judiciary is to be reassessed, don’t be surprised if the role of the Supreme Court and political appointments are a part of this! Parliamentary scrutiny didn’t matter when Remainer MPs wanted to ram through complex legislation within a day in order to block Brexit, why should it matter now?

As the Boris Johnson Government gets going, I wonder if all those Remainers will finally stop and realise the damage that has been done and ultimately how pointless it all was. Brexit will now be harder than that which was originally on the table, and political convention is the collateral victim. They cannot complain as they are the ones that led us down this path.
"Remainers" can take the shape of whatever confirmation bias you hold if you look at it from a Brexit perspective.
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  #25726  
Old 20.12.2019, 15:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder if “Remainer Regret” will soon be entering the political lexicon? I wonder if those Remainers that had the chance for a softer Brexit yet gambled on trying to prevent it all together will begin to regret their actions? I wonder if all those Remainers that cheered with glee as long standing political conventions were systematically torn down in the pursuit of stopping Brexit will lament what they did? Scrutiny of Parliament, the role of the speaker, politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on, the use of the courts to rule on political matters, all these political no-nos done in an attempt to thwart Brexit.

Now Boris Johnson has a massive majority, and will quite rightly look one by one at all the tools that were used to thwart him. The meaningful vote is to go. Parliamentary updates on the how trade negotiations are going is to go. The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is to go. The judiciary is to be reassessed, don’t be surprised if the role of the Supreme Court and political appointments are a part of this! Parliamentary scrutiny didn’t matter when Remainer MPs wanted to ram through complex legislation within a day in order to block Brexit, why should it matter now?

As the Boris Johnson Government gets going, I wonder if all those Remainers will finally stop and realise the damage that has been done and ultimately how pointless it all was. Brexit will now be harder than that which was originally on the table, and political convention is the collateral victim. They cannot complain as they are the ones that led us down this path.

Nope. 'Cos remainers didn't want to leave at all. From their POV it was always going to be a bum deal.

You sound positively incoherently orgasmic at the thought of all this awful stuff.
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  #25727  
Old 20.12.2019, 15:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nope. 'Cos remainers didn't want to leave at all. From their POV it was always going to be a bum deal.

You sound positively incoherently orgasmic at the thought of all this awful stuff.
Indeed. I think "Remainer Regret" is that the politicians on "our side" didn't lie nearly well enough.
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  #25728  
Old 20.12.2019, 15:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nope. 'Cos remainers didn't want to leave at all. From their POV it was always going to be a bum deal.

You sound positively incoherently orgasmic at the thought of all this awful stuff.
I can assure you I’m not! I was horrified by the actions of the last Parliament, and of certain Remain activists like Jo Maugham and Gina Miller (“we’re fighting for the rule of law” wink-wink). I could see the consequences of trampling all over centuries of political customs! It was clear to me that as soon as an election were to be called then Leavers would vent their fury and that then there would be repercussions. This is how UK politics works, as soon a new precedent is set, then it becomes standard practice. This is the great tragedy of the past 3.5 years, that Remainers were oblivious of the damage they were doing in pursuit of their unobtainable goal.

I don’t want to see widespread constitutional changes to the mother of parliaments, however what choice has Boris Johnson got? The actions of a number of a number Remainers has shown the lengths fanatical people will go to in order to achieve their objectives. It can’t be ignored and steps need to be put in place to prevent it happening again.

If one was a hard Brexiteer (and I am not) then one could be forgiven for now applauding the actions of the likes of Jo Maugham and Anna Soubry for what they did in the last Parliament as it virtually ensured the voter backlash that we saw one week ago. Were it not for their actions, Theresa May could still be Prime Minster, and Boris Johnson a failed and bitter nobody. They have ensured that Britain will now get a much harder Brexit than would have happened had they just accepted the referendum result of 2016.
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  #25729  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don’t want to see widespread constitutional changes to the mother of parliaments, however what choice has Boris Johnson got? The actions of a number of a number Remainers has shown the lengths fanatical people will go to in order to achieve their objectives. It can’t be ignored and steps need to be put in place to prevent it happening again.
So, label people with opposing views who are exercising their right to explore and act upon the law as "fanatical", pass legislation to restrict their future democratic right (yes, believe it or not remainers ALSO have rights, you know?), and plough on with an agenda nobody actually voted for?

Sounds about right for today's shitshow of politics.

Oh and - this.

Quote:
Indeed. I think "Remainer Regret" is that the politicians on "our side" didn't lie nearly well enough.
Seems the only way to gain power these days is just to whip up the electorate into a fact-lite, empty promises and big talk frenzy. Heavy on the populist slogans which mean nothing but sound good.

Facts, balance and honesty just ain't gonna cut it from now on.
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  #25730  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don’t want to see widespread constitutional changes to the mother of parliaments, however what choice has Boris Johnson got? The actions of a number of a number Remainers has shown the lengths fanatical people will go to in order to achieve their objectives. It can’t be ignored and steps need to be put in place to prevent it happening again.
.
Maybe this is a more balanced post of yours, but you're very quick to call fanatical those who tried to oppose the referendum's results because it wasn't really as if people knew exactly what they voted for. I always thought this term suits better some Brexiteers actually.
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  #25731  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder if “Remainer Regret” will soon be entering the political lexicon? I wonder if those Remainers that had the chance for a softer Brexit yet gambled on trying to prevent it all together will begin to regret their actions? I wonder if all those Remainers that cheered with glee as long standing political conventions were systematically torn down in the pursuit of stopping Brexit will lament what they did? Scrutiny of Parliament, the role of the speaker, politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on, the use of the courts to rule on political matters, all these political no-nos done in an attempt to thwart Brexit.

Now Boris Johnson has a massive majority, and will quite rightly look one by one at all the tools that were used to thwart him. The meaningful vote is to go. Parliamentary updates on the how trade negotiations are going is to go. The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is to go. The judiciary is to be reassessed, don’t be surprised if the role of the Supreme Court and political appointments are a part of this! Parliamentary scrutiny didn’t matter when Remainer MPs wanted to ram through complex legislation within a day in order to block Brexit, why should it matter now?

As the Boris Johnson Government gets going, I wonder if all those Remainers will finally stop and realise the damage that has been done and ultimately how pointless it all was. Brexit will now be harder than that which was originally on the table, and political convention is the collateral victim. They cannot complain as they are the ones that led us down this path.
Only until the next GE when everything will be reversed again when people realise the damage inflicted by Boris.

Not clear what you mean by "politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on"? UK Politicians traditionally have never implemented their manifestos; I assume you meant "implementing"? "Standing by" means they continued to believe rather than putting it in action.
Or did you have a specific manifesto in mind?

You are oversimplifying the situation. None of this explains why May, who asked for a mandate to implement Brexit, got so few votes vs Boris.
May also had the benefit of Court rulings and the other tools you mention
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  #25732  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Workers' Rights watered down
Promise to take refugee children watered down
Sovreign Parliament's decisionmaking on Brexit blocked.

The Turkeys have certainly voted for Xmas.
Slugs for Salt!
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  #25733  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Workers' Rights watered down
Promise to take refugee children watered down
Sovreign Parliament's decisionmaking on Brexit blocked.

The Turkeys have certainly voted for Xmas.
Maybe in time "like Brits voting for Brexit" will enter common speech as an alternative expression
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  #25734  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Only until the next GE when everything will be reversed again when people realise the damage inflicted by Boris.

Wishful thinking on your part. There needs to be a credible opposition to the persona of Boris, and Labour have no-one. BoJo will rule for the next 10 years.



In the meantime, the Tories will be 'spaffing the cash' in the new seats to ensure they are retained. The impact of Brexit will take 10 years to unfold, or longer.
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  #25735  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the meantime, the Tories will be 'spaffing the cash' in the new seats to ensure they are retained. The impact of Brexit will take 10 years to unfold, or longer.
The first physical manifestation will come very quickly when the EU starts to conduct customs inspections in the Irish Sea.... lets see how that goes.
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  #25736  
Old 20.12.2019, 16:59
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The first physical manifestation will come very quickly when the EU starts to conduct customs inspections in the Irish Sea.... lets see how that goes.

I won't be holding my breath, to be honest.
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  #25737  
Old 20.12.2019, 17:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So, label people with opposing views who are exercising their right to explore and act upon the law as "fanatical", pass legislation to restrict their future democratic right (yes, believe it or not remainers ALSO have rights, you know?), and plough on with an agenda nobody actually voted for?
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Maybe this is a more balanced post of yours, but you're very quick to call fanatical those who tried to oppose the referendum's results because it wasn't really as if people knew exactly what they voted for. I always thought this term suits better some Brexiteers actually.
If you have a better word to describe the actions of people who are prepared to go to almost any lengths to prevent Brexit from happening, and in spite of collateral consequences to the judiciary and political constitution, then I am all ears?
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  #25738  
Old 20.12.2019, 17:07
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If you have a better word to describe the actions of people who are prepared to go to almost any lengths to prevent Brexit from happening, and in spite of collateral consequences to the judiciary and political constitution, then I am all ears?
I can give you two words, if you like.

British people.
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  #25739  
Old 20.12.2019, 17:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Only until the next GE when everything will be reversed again when people realise the damage inflicted by Boris.

Not clear what you mean by "politicians standing by the manifesto to which they were elected on"? UK Politicians traditionally have never implemented their manifestos; I assume you meant "implementing"? "Standing by" means they continued to believe rather than putting it in action.
Or did you have a specific manifesto in mind?

You are oversimplifying the situation. None of this explains why May, who asked for a mandate to implement Brexit, got so few votes vs Boris.
May also had the benefit of Court rulings and the other tools you mention
Oversimplifying?! Perhaps you missed what happened one week ago?!

The politicians lied! Virtually all MPs from the main parties said in 2017 that they would respect the result of the referendum. It was in manifestos and individual MP pledges. Even the Labour Party said they would. Then as the parliamentary term progressed they changed their tune and decided that actually they didn’t like this Brexit business and started trying to block it. This is why the vast majority of MPs who behaved in this way lost their seats!

The withdrawal bill has just been passed! Happy Brexmas!
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Old 20.12.2019, 17:14
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The politicians lied!
Oh the irony.
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