The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	The British people are not an homogeneous group.

The term could refer to anyone coming from the British Isles.... I recently came across one looper who believes BREXIT is the result of English people not having a cultural identity of their own - according to him Morris Dancing is not enough!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	Also from the Labour Manifesto (2017) I am not a Labour supporter but this turned out to be a reasonable forecast.

This is what makes their actions during the last Parliament seem all the more crazy! Concessions has already been made on nearly all these points and there was little likelihood anyhow of a hard Brexit with Theresa May and Phillip Hammond leading the Tories. Yet by continuously voting down the deal they’re now going to end up with a much harder form of Brexit. Madness!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	When the objective is to maintain the status quo of the previous 40yrs, the actions to preserve that cannot be described as fanatical. You're winning at oxymorons today lad, even if your cut and paste rant went a bit wonky donkey 😂

You have my sympathies that you wished to remain a member of the EU. I understand that, but if we value democracy we respect the outcomes of democratic process and don’t try to overturn the result through any means possible.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	This is what makes their actions during the last Parliament seem all the more crazy! Concessions has already been made on nearly all these points and there was little likelihood anyhow of a hard Brexit with Theresa May and Phillip Hammond leading the Tories. Yet by continuously voting down the deal they’re now going to end up with a much harder form of Brexit. Madness!

More crazy? In Queen's English, we correctly write crazier?

"Concessions has"? In Queen's English, we correctly write "Concessions have".

"by continuously voting"? In Queen's English, we correctly write "by continually voting"

Are you sure you are not a bot?

Crazy to follow their own manifesto? What definition of crazy are you using?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	You have my sympathies that you wished to remain a member of the EU. I understand that, but if we value democracy we respect the outcomes of democratic process and don’t try to overturn the result through any means possible.

According to this logic not even this referendum could have ever taken place.

UK was a member of EU as a result of a democratic process. Some people wanted to change that. And here we are.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	You have my sympathies that you wished to remain a member of the EU. I understand that, but if we value democracy we respect the outcomes of democratic process and don’t try to overturn the result through any means possible.

Have you ever thought about why the UK has a general election every four years? It is about understanding democracy is an evolving process and decisions made by voting should be regularly reviewed due to changing circumstances.

[marton]

	Quote:	greenmount
	According to this logic not even this referendum could have ever taken place. UK was a member of EU as a result of a democratic process. Some people wanted to change that. And here we are.

I would not dignify such posts by assuming they are based on logic?

[curley]

	Quote:	marton
	More crazy? In Queen's English, we correctly write crazier? "Concessions has"? In Queen's English, we correctly write "Concessions have". "by continuously voting"? In Queen's English, we correctly write "by continually voting" Are you sure you are not a bot? Crazy to follow their own manifesto? What definition of crazy are you using?

Blimey, the queen sweares a lot, eih?
If all GB citizens write and speak the Queen's English or they're not real, I either met bots only for decades or I'm gonna have nightmares about the Queen's English tonight.

Having a different opinion means one is a bot. 52% of the British voters were bots. Indeed, that is freaky (all produced by bigblue2? That again must have been lucrative for him, LOL).

Okay, okay, I guess I'm not even meant to be on this thread, neither being a Brit nor a bot, so off I toddle. Pitty, could be such an interesting discussion if it ever actually became a discussion.
Yet a proper discussion might lead to a solution. And where's the fun in that?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	This is what makes their actions during the last Parliament seem all the more crazy! Concessions has already been made on nearly all these points and there was little likelihood anyhow of a hard Brexit with Theresa May and Phillip Hammond leading the Tories. Yet by continuously voting down the deal they’re now going to end up with a much harder form of Brexit. Madness!

At no point under Theresa May's leadership could any votge not be carried by all the Tories backing her, but you continually let the ERG off the hook. That's crazy.

	Quote:	marton
	That would be the bus with the NHS slogan?

That would, perhaps, be the now fabled Brexit bus that two of my friends have been told this week "is coming to take you away and get all the monkeys out of my country". That's been said to a guy whose mother is Pakistani and a guy who's 1/4 Ghanian.

[marton]

	Quote:	curley
	Blimey, the queen sweares a lot, eih? If all GB citizens write and speak the Queen's English or they're not real, I either met bots only for decades or I'm gonna have nightmares about the Queen's English tonight. Having a different opinion means one is a bot. 52% of the British voters were bots. Indeed, that is freaky (all produced by bigblue2? That again must have been lucrative for him, LOL). Okay, okay, I guess I'm not even meant to be on this thread, neither being a Brit nor a bot, so off I toddle. Pitty, could be such an interesting discussion if it ever actually became a discussion. Yet a proper discussion might lead to a solution. And where's the fun in that?

You are somewhat exaggerating
Correct they are not all bots.
Having a different opinion does not mean one is a bot.

However, that does not mean that bots do not exist and cannot be challenged?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	At no point under Theresa May's leadership could any votge not be carried by all the Tories backing her, but you continually let the ERG off the hook. That's crazy.

I don’t see why people keep bringing up the ERG, this is yet another false equivalence. The ERG’s aim was a purer form of Brexit. They gambled on blocking Mrs May’s withdrawal agreement, yet as it turned out, by the third reading many had come around to supporting it realising that Brexit itself could be lost. Had they scuppered Brexit then I would be the first to be lamenting their actions. As it was, they took a risk and won.

The difference with the Remainer MPs that blocked Mrs May’s deal is that it didn’t stop there. All the ERG did was not lend their support, the Remainer MPs went much further in their sabotage. Another point that shouldn’t be forgotten is that the ERG were on the side of the argument that had won the referendum in 2016.

[Blueangel]

Blah, blah, blah, fish paste! There's nothing you can say that will convince me that this was the right decision for my country, bot or not. Nobody's managed it in 4yrs and you're not going to be the one to do it. It didn't need to happen. It's caused an incredible amount of damage, fear and division. It's raised racial abuse to levels not seen in almost 40yrs, and that's before it's even happened. As for your concept of remainer remorse or remainer regret... Ha! As if!

[lewton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Why is it the poor Brexit voting Welsh are always get forgotten when people talk about the Union? And likewise, why is Scottish nationalism always allowed to get away with portrayal as a romantic notion whereas English nationalism is portrayed as something far more sinister? The SNP have nothing else other than Indy Ref 2 to boost their chances in 2021. They won’t be able to avoid scrutiny of their record in government forever and for that reason I don’t expect them to win a majority.

Scottish nationalism is about setting their country free.
English nationalism is about maintaining their tyranny over the other countries.


PS. It must be very funny in your head. Scotland has the best quality of life in the UK thanks to the SNP government. But if we were to believe you, the SNP is doomed.

	Quote:	lewton
	Scottish nationalism is about setting their country free. English nationalism is about maintaining their tyranny over the other countries. PS. It must be very funny in your head. Scotland has the best quality of life in the UK thanks to the SNP government. But if we were to believe you, the SNP is doomed.

Civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism...I did explain this many times on this thread, but shockingly TC has failed to take it on board.

Interesting and probably pertinent stats here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ividing-britai

Essentially, the fewer years you've spent in education, the more likely you are to vote Tory. Make of that what you will.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Essentially, the fewer years you've spent in education, the more likely you are to vote Tory. Make of that what you will.

The reality is that 83% of people don't repay their student loans in full, so are subsidised by people with a lower level of education who have paid taxes for 5 years longer. Make of that what you will Basically the less educated are not as stupid as you would like them to be! If you have been living a subsidised life then voting Labour makes sense.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	UK was a member of EU as a result of a democratic process.

An advisory referendum.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The reality is that 83% of people don't repay their student loans in full, so are subsidised by people with a lower level of education who have paid taxes for 5 years longer. Make of that what you will Basically the less educated are not as stupid as you would like them to be! If you have been living a subsidised life then voting Labour makes sense.

I didn’t draw any conclusions, just presented the facts. Seems they are somewhat triggering.

I daresay that on average people with higher education will earn more in the long run, so they are really subsidising their former selves, aren’t they? The amount of people earning enough to pay any decent sum of tax between the ages of 18-21 must be tiny, so I doubt they pay enough to cover themselves, nevermind subsidise others.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	lewton
	Scottish nationalism is about setting their country free. English nationalism is about maintaining their tyranny over the other countries. PS. It must be very funny in your head. Scotland has the best quality of life in the UK thanks to the SNP government. But if we were to believe you, the SNP is doomed.

It’s sad that you think this way. The Scots have control over education, health, laws and judiciary, local government, housing, environment, social care, agriculture as well as many other things. When they spend more money than they take in tax revenue, which they invariably do as the SNP is running the country, then the rest of the UK bails them out. If the English are tyrants, then they are perhaps the most benevolent tyrants ever known!!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism...I did explain this many times on this thread, but shockingly TC has failed to take it on board. Interesting and probably pertinent stats here: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ividing-britai Essentially, the fewer years you've spent in education, the more likely you are to vote Tory. Make of that what you will.

And the poor Welsh still keep getting forgotten! England is historically far more ethnically diverse than Scotland so this argument doesn’t make sense!

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Blah, blah, blah, fish paste! There's nothing you can say that will convince me that this was the right decision for my country, bot or not. Nobody's managed it in 4yrs and you're not going to be the one to do it. It didn't need to happen. It's caused an incredible amount of damage, fear and division. It's raised racial abuse to levels not seen in almost 40yrs, and that's before it's even happened. As for your concept of remainer remorse or remainer regret... Ha! As if!

I’ve not been trying to convince you on whether it was the correct decision or not. I respect that you wish for the UK to remain in the EU. All I ask is that the result of the referendum be respected.