The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[ChrisCMR]

I cannot read the Express. It's shouty headlines and blatant Tory bias make it little more than a tabloid propaganda rag.

Mind you, it is now competing for that 'honour' with The Daily Telegraph, a 'newspaper' whose decline since 2016 has been so shocking it is now virtually unreadable. Owned by the Barclay brothers, who are among the many pro-Tory, pro-Brexit tax dodgers, it is now only too noteworthy for the deluded, at times outright offensive articles written by its editor, Allister Heath, and at least 4 of its main columnists, Allison Pearson (who is a genuinely nasty piece of work), Fraser Nelson, Sherelle Jacobs and Charles Moore (who seems to be a classic example of an ageing, Tory baby-boomer suffering from an English identity crisis, as he slowly realises that 1) World War 2 was a long time ago, and he never saw it anyway. 2) Being English - and public school educated - does NOT make you superior to the rest of the world). I can just picture Moore angrily crying into his glass of Port.......

And that is before you see many of the letters written into it. One in particular stands out, from earlier this year. It was written by a woman who claimed to find the idea of stockpiling for a No Deal Brexit almost invigorating! The last line was "Brexit Hampers anyone?" Honestly, when you read some of these letters you begin to grasp the scale of the English identity crisis which has afflicted much of England (and it is England which is the cause of Brexit) since they began to discover that they are now just a small country whose imperial past is just a distant memory...... So many Telegraph readers - likely 1950's-60's born baby-boomers - just cannot accept that harsh, 21st century reality, and instead yearn desperately for an imagined WW2 and/or British Empire past, because it has become such a part of who they are that they cannot live without it.....

As a result, England is now infected with English nationalism, which at this rate, is going to result in England becoming an even smaller country as Scotland and Northern Ireland decide to cut it loose, and move on. In my view, that is now only a matter of time.

[CodPeace]

	Quote:	ChrisCMR
	I As a result, England is now infected with English nationalism......

Looking at your other posts, I think you are jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire if you come here.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	ChrisCMR
	As a result, England is now infected with English nationalism, which at this rate, is going to result in England becoming an even smaller country as Scotland and Northern Ireland decide to cut it loose, and move on. In my view, that is now only a matter of time.

This is a Scottish myth! Come south of the border and see for yourself, the only nationalism on the British isles is the wicked and malicious type being peddled by Nicola Sturgeon!

[TonyClifton]

Jo man of the people Maugham has battered a fox to death on Boxing Day. It would be fitting to both the poor fox and us Brexiteers were he to feel the full force of the law.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	ChrisCMR
	I cannot read the Express. It's shouty headlines and blatant Tory bias make it little more than a tabloid propaganda rag. Mind you, it is now competing for that 'honour' with The Daily Telegraph, a 'newspaper' whose decline since 2016 has been so shocking it is now virtually unreadable. Owned by the Barclay brothers, who are among the many pro-Tory, pro-Brexit tax dodgers, it is now only too noteworthy for the deluded, at times outright offensive articles written by its editor, Allister Heath, and at least 4 of its main columnists, Allison Pearson (who is a genuinely nasty piece of work), Fraser Nelson, Sherelle Jacobs and Charles Moore (who seems to be a classic example of an ageing, Tory baby-boomer suffering from an English identity crisis, as he slowly realises that 1) World War 2 was a long time ago, and he never saw it anyway. 2) Being English - and public school educated - does NOT make you superior to the rest of the world). I can just picture Moore angrily crying into his glass of Port....... And that is before you see many of the letters written into it. One in particular stands out, from earlier this year. It was written by a woman who claimed to find the idea of stockpiling for a No Deal Brexit almost invigorating! The last line was "Brexit Hampers anyone?" Honestly, when you read some of these letters you begin to grasp the scale of the English identity crisis which has afflicted much of England (and it is England which is the cause of Brexit) since they began to discover that they are now just a small country whose imperial past is just a distant memory...... So many Telegraph readers - likely 1950's-60's born baby-boomers - just cannot accept that harsh, 21st century reality, and instead yearn desperately for an imagined WW2 and/or British Empire past, because it has become such a part of who they are that they cannot live without it..... As a result, England is now infected with English nationalism, which at this rate, is going to result in England becoming an even smaller country as Scotland and Northern Ireland decide to cut it loose, and move on. In my view, that is now only a matter of time.

The Barclay Brothers live in Monaco a principality that's has no income tax, clearly any dividends paid from the Telegraph will have been subject to UK corporation tax & no further tax is payable. Nothing dodgy or dodging just how it is for anyone who chooses to live in Monaco. HMRC have very strict rules for being UK tax dual resident so clearly they spend very little time in the UK. I have US investments but have spent zero days in the US in the last 10 years so have no further US tax liability other than withholding tax & can use US withholding tax against tax liabilities in other jurisdictions.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So you know the great new deal that Trump did with Canada, yes that one - the one Congress has not ratified and that Donald no longer mentions.... One should never underestimate the Granny factor.... particularly an Italian one with Irish grandchildren! And this report does not even consider the possibility.

Canada’s trade deal with the EU has also not yet been ratified. By the EU!

[John William]

	Quote:	marton
	Source A ray of hope!

More on that EU love letter from Frans Timmermans.

BBC News - EU love letter says UK always welcome back

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	John William
	More on that EU love letter from Frans Timmermans. BBC News - EU love letter says UK always welcome back

Can we handover Frans Timmermans to the UK as a kind of goodbye gift?

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Canada’s trade deal with the EU has also not yet been ratified. By the EU!

It has been provisionally applied since September 2017, so the treaty has already eliminated 98% of the tariffs between Canada and the EU.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	This is a Scottish myth! Come south of the border and see for yourself, the only nationalism on the British isles is the wicked and malicious type being peddled by Nicola Sturgeon!

So English nationalism is good but Scottish nationalism is bad? Or maybe, English nationalism is the right kind (as the English are a superior lot and it's just...natural, like in the natural order of things and their God given right to be nationalistic) and Scottish nationalism is the vicious, primitive kind, perpetrated by semi-inferior creatures.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The Barclay Brothers live in Monaco a principality that's has no income tax, clearly any dividends paid from the Telegraph will have been subject to UK corporation tax & no further tax is payable. Nothing dodgy or dodging just how it is for anyone who chooses to live in Monaco. HMRC have very strict rules for being UK tax dual resident so clearly they spend very little time in the UK. I have US investments but have spent zero days in the US in the last 10 years so have no further US tax liability other than withholding tax & can use US withholding tax against tax liabilities in other jurisdictions.

Monaco or Manx......?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	greenmount
	So English nationalism is good but Scottish nationalism is bad? Or maybe, English nationalism is the right kind (as the English are a superior lot and it's just...natural, like in the natural order of things and their God given right to be nationalistic) and Scottish nationalism is the vicious, primitive kind, perpetrated by semi-inferior creatures.

That’s not what I said. I said English nationalism doesn’t exist! Well there are small nutty fringes like the EDF but they’re largely ignored by the good people of England and Wales. A few flags may go up during major sporting events but this is firmly rooted in friendly patriotism, and couldn’t be further removed from the disgusting nationalism spouted by the SNP! Our friend ChrisCMR should venture south of the border and see for himself.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	That’s not what I said. I said English nationalism doesn’t exist! Well there are small nutty fringes like the EDF but they’re largely ignored by the good people of England and Wales. A few flags may go up during major sporting events but this is firmly rooted in friendly patriotism, and couldn’t be further removed from the disgusting nationalism spouted by the SNP! Our friend ChrisCMR should venture south of the border and see for himself.

Are you quite insane? The flag of St George is hoisted in a friendly manner? Ask any country in Europe how much they dread seeing large groups of England fans converging on their town squares waving flags of St George and singing 10 German Bombers. As someone who used to go to a few England games (some of my English friends are big footy fans, so I went along for a foreign jolly), it is frankly cringingly embarrassing.

Then ask them how they view visiting fans of Scotland (not that many have seen us for a long time at football tournaments!).

[roegner]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	That’s not what I said. I said English nationalism doesn’t exist! Well there are small nutty fringes like the EDF but they’re largely ignored by the good people of England and Wales. A few flags may go up during major sporting events but this is firmly rooted in friendly patriotism, and couldn’t be further removed from the disgusting nationalism spouted by the SNP! Our friend ChrisCMR should venture south of the border and see for himself.

When was the last time you were in the UK??? Or went to a soccer game?

	Quote:	roegner
	When was the last time you were in the UK??? Or went to a soccer game?

Ahem *Football* ahem.

TC isn't British (or has certainly never lived there), this we all suspected and has just been proven.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Are you quite insane? The flag of St George is hoisted in a friendly manner? Ask any country in Europe how much they dread seeing large groups of England fans converging on their town squares waving flags of St George and singing 10 German Bombers. As someone who used to go to a few England games (some of my English friends are big footy fans, so I went along for a foreign jolly), it is frankly cringingly embarrassing. Then ask them how they view visiting fans of Scotland (not that many have seen us for a long time at football tournaments!).

Football fans make up a tiny proportion of the country’s population. 10 German bombers is a song not exclusively sung by England fans either, our compatriots in Northern Ireland also sing the song with gusto at their matches too! And it would be remiss of us to discuss football without mentioning the most vile form of Scottish nationalism and bigotry that has infiltrated the game and that’s sectarianism. May the English game keep this disgusting prejudice at arms length!

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Football fans make up a tiny proportion of the country’s population. 10 German bombers is a song not exclusively sung by England fans either, our compatriots in Northern Ireland also sing the song with gusto at their matches too! And it would be remiss of us to discuss football without mentioning the most vile form of Scottish nationalism and bigotry that has infiltrated the game and that’s sectarianism. May the English game keep this disgusting prejudice at arms length!

• Football fans make up a tiny proportion of the country’s population.
  
• remiss of us to discuss football without mentioning ...... bigotry that has infiltrated the game

If you are talking about Glasgow as you say this is only a tiny proportion of a tiny proportion of the country’s population so "so what"?

Anyway Scottish sectarianism? Let's lay this myth to rest, so please stop spreading this fact-free bigoted nonsense.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Football fans make up a tiny proportion of the country’s population. 10 German bombers is a song not exclusively sung by England fans either, our compatriots in Northern Ireland also sing the song with gusto at their matches too! And it would be remiss of us to discuss football without mentioning the most vile form of Scottish nationalism and bigotry that has infiltrated the game and that’s sectarianism. May the English game keep this disgusting prejudice at arms length!

You do realise that Glaswegian sectarianism is due to one side wanting to be English (/British) and the other wanting to be Irish - nothing to do with being Scottish in the slightest. You can see this as the blue side tend to display union flags and flags of St George and the green side the Irish Tricolore...neither side go about waving the Saltire.

So in summary, the vile nationalism you talk about is English and Irish. If you lot down south could take them and sort out your part of the problem, it would be much appreciated.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	said English nationalism doesn’t exist! Well there are small nutty fringes like the EDF...

For any non-Brits reading this thread, EDF are an energy company https://www.edfenergy.com/ Think TC meant EDL

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Football fans make up a tiny proportion of the country’s population. 10 German bombers is a song not exclusively sung by England fans either, our compatriots in Northern Ireland also sing the song with gusto at their matches too!

Just tested myself on the football allegiance of my facebook friends list. Only 5 or 6 that I didn't know out of about 180, but that's because they're rugby players or American. I know the 2nd and 3rd teams of many of my friends such as Lazio, Inter and Olympiakos, and even have an absolutely lovely Wickham Wanderers fan on my list (bless! ). And as for 10 German Bombers...that's an incredibly long way down the list of chants commonly sung at England games.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	You do realise that Glaswegian sectarianism is due to one side wanting to be English (/British) and the other wanting to be Irish - nothing to do with being Scottish in the slightest.

Historically it has got everything to do with the Scottish. From the origin of the planters in Ulster who’s descendants today are the force behind Unionism to the atrocities committed by the Scottish regiments during the Anglo Irish war to the treatment Irish seasonal workers, mainly Catholics from NI and Donegal in Scotland in the 50s, 60s and well into 70s...

It is called Unionism because it’s about wanting to maintain the Union not about wanting to be English for heavens sake.