Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 25.02.2016, 09:29
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,856
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Loz, you sound just like Guy Verhofstadt

There really is little difference, absolutely no substance, where do you get such ridiculous ideas?
  #242  
Old 25.02.2016, 10:10
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 15,538
Groaned at 333 Times in 286 Posts
Thanked 27,731 Times in 11,135 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Bah who in their right minds would listen to a twerp like Guy Verhofstadt.
  #243  
Old 25.02.2016, 11:18
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
As soon as Schengen gets scrapped, the Euro becomes pointless.
Ummm ... WHY?
  #244  
Old 25.02.2016, 11:42
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Ummm ... WHY?
I'll let Supreme Leader Junker answer that one for you:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...schengen-fails

https://euobserver.com/migration/131265

Quote:
View Post
Loz, you sound just like Guy Verhofstadt

There really is little difference, absolutely no substance, where do you get such ridiculous ideas?
The difference is I'm not an EU politicians. I spout my opinions on internet forums. And, unlike mole rat Verhofstadt, there is reason behind what I say.
  #245  
Old 25.02.2016, 12:40
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,358
Groaned at 336 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 26,266 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Who cares what this dice toothed shitpuffin has to say? He just loves the EU so much because it gives relevance to his country, which would only be known for chocolate and Jean Claude Van Damme otherwise.
I thought you were going to mention Dutroux.

But that's unfair as actually I like Belgium a lot, and it's not the Belgians' fault that the EU is out of control.

Quote:
View Post
He's just scare mongering. The USA would make a deal with Britain as would the rest of Europe. Little England he says? I'll take that. Far better than insignificant Belgium.
Scaremongering, and bullying. When Dubya Bush said "if you're not with us you're against us" there was widespread hissing among the liberal establishment. Where is that indignation now?

Quote:
View Post
The EU is finished. Brexit or no Brexit, it won't be around in 10 years time. A combination of the economic crisis it faces, and the migrant crisis will see to that. As soon as Schengen gets scrapped, the Euro becomes pointless. Brexit would just hasten this process. Denmark would go, then Holland, then maybe a few eastern European states until all that's left is Germany supporting Club Med.
Germany is really doing everything in its power right now to lose as many allies as possible. Their treatment of Hungary and Poland is totally insensitive for example, and Merkel isn't too popular in Greece or Spain either. But its not stopping there as even the Dutch are beginning to get fed up with Germany. Germany seems to have lost track of Europe being about all of us together and thinks its all about everybody doing things the Germany way or b#ggering off..

Germany totally fails to understand that for many European nations, the image of a harsh, bullying and intolerant Germany wakes very unpleasant memories.
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #246  
Old 25.02.2016, 14:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
But that's unfair as actually I like Belgium a lot, and it's not the Belgians' fault that the EU is out of control.
I've nothing against the Belgians, just against politicians of the Low Countries when they make thinly veiled attacks on the UK based around their own insecurity over the EU's strength.

Another example, Holland PM Mark Rutte, last year he said exit from the EU would mean the UK became:

“a mid-sized economy in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, in neither America nor Europe.”


I'd HAPPILY take that.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #247  
Old 25.02.2016, 15:14
lewton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
Posts: 626
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 796 Times in 451 Posts
lewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I've nothing against the Belgians, just against politicians of the Low Countries when they make thinly veiled attacks on the UK based around their own insecurity over the EU's strength.

Another example, Holland PM Mark Rutte, last year he said exit from the EU would mean the UK became:

“a mid-sized economy in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, in neither America nor Europe.”


I'd HAPPILY take that.
You'd happily take that and move there or take that from your apartment in Zurich?
The following 2 users would like to thank lewton for this useful post:
  #248  
Old 25.02.2016, 20:19
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'll let Supreme Leader Junker answer that one for you:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...schengen-fails

https://euobserver.com/migration/131265



The difference is I'm not an EU politicians. I spout my opinions on internet forums. And, unlike mole rat Verhofstadt, there is reason behind what I say.
I ask you why you think the end of Schengen and the Euro ending are related, and your "reason" is that JUNCKER says so?

Then in the next line you claim to differentiate yourself from a EU politician since there is reason behind what you say? But didn`t you just cite one as a "reason"?

I think supreme leader Juncker is just fearmongering to stave off the inevitable changes coming in the Schengen accords as a result of the migrant crisis, by linking it to the Euro.

So despite the amazing "reason" you have provided I don`t think additional checks at borders will do one damn thing that affects the Euro. Most EU countries, including those don`t use the Euro, anyway have visa free travel to one another irrespective of Schengen.
  #249  
Old 25.02.2016, 20:22
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 6,247
Groaned at 410 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 10,363 Times in 4,507 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The EU is finished. Brexit or no Brexit, it won't be around in 10 years time.
Look we've been hear those kind of statements for the past 40 years and yet it is still there. The fact is that the EU has been severely tested over that last several years and it has not come a part as you seem to wish. And I seriously doubt if it will in the next decade either. If anything the Euro Group will strengthen in the coming years and there may well be two tier membership only time will tell.
  #250  
Old 25.02.2016, 23:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I ask you why you think the end of Schengen and the Euro ending are related, and your "reason" is that JUNCKER says so?
He's not wrong though. What would be the point in a single currency if the borders are shut?

Quote:
View Post
Look we've been hear those kind of statements for the past 40 years and yet it is still there. The fact is that the EU has been severely tested over that last several years and it has not come a part as you seem to wish. And I seriously doubt if it will in the next decade either. If anything the Euro Group will strengthen in the coming years and there may well be two tier membership only time will tell.
I'm sure the same was said about the Roman Empire. Greece recalled their ambassador from Austria over the migrant crisis today. A meeting was held between the Balkan states without an EU invitation to discuss the same thing. The cracks are already there, Europe as we know it is finished.
  #251  
Old 25.02.2016, 23:54
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,845
Groaned at 798 Times in 676 Posts
Thanked 25,709 Times in 13,440 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
He's not wrong though. What would be the point in a single currency if the borders are shut?



I'm sure the same was said about the Roman Empire. Greece recalled their ambassador from Austria over the migrant crisis today. A meeting was held between the Balkan states without an EU invitation to discuss the same thing. The cracks are already there, Europe as we know it is finished.
"What would be the point in a single currency if the borders are shut? " But they are not shut? People with the correct documents pass through as usual.
  #252  
Old 26.02.2016, 00:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Look we've been hear those kind of statements for the past 40 years and yet it is still there. The fact is that the EU has been severely tested over that last several years and it has not come a part as you seem to wish. And I seriously doubt if it will in the next decade either. If anything the Euro Group will strengthen in the coming years and there may well be two tier membership only time will tell.
Right on cue. Read and understand, this could happen.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/i...tain-to-leave/
  #253  
Old 26.02.2016, 10:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 11,006
Groaned at 737 Times in 543 Posts
Thanked 15,083 Times in 7,926 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
He's not wrong though. What would be the point in a single currency if the borders are shut?



I'm sure the same was said about the Roman Empire. Greece recalled their ambassador from Austria over the migrant crisis today. A meeting was held between the Balkan states without an EU invitation to discuss the same thing. The cracks are already there, Europe as we know it is finished.
Even with closed borders, cross-border business will keep being done. With multiple currencies this entails currency risk, a risk not present within a single-currency area. Every risk (covering it, rather) increases costs.

Implementing Just-In-Time with cross-border supply lines would suffer a major blow from closing borders as it can be no longer assumed that spare parts and urgent deliveries won't need to wait at the border. This increases risk of extended downtimes, which in turn increases costs, which of course must be paid by each of us.

Schengen devoloped largely independent of the Euro (which in turn was introduced 1999/2001 IIRC). Schengen started in 1985, the base of todays Schengen became effective 1995 in the form of the Schengen Convention and wasn't incorporated into EU law until in 1997, before which time Schengen development happened outside of EU (EWU then) structures and institutions.

While Schengen and a common currency reinforce one anothers' effects Junckers statement makes no sense.
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #254  
Old 26.02.2016, 11:30
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,028
Groaned at 316 Times in 214 Posts
Thanked 20,653 Times in 8,674 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
He's not wrong though. What would be the point in a single currency if the borders are shut?
There's no point to the single currency even if borders are open.

Even at the time, it was known to make no economic sense. It was purely a step towards fiscal union, but as the Greece crisis showed, countries such as Germany were not really prepared to be in a fiscal union with Greece and accept all the economic downsides that would come with it.
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #255  
Old 26.02.2016, 11:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I remember a group of German businessmen coming to speak to our German studying 6th Formers, via the Chamber of Commerce (in the UK) - about the value of learning German.

And the message was clear- 'we will speak perfect English to sell to YOU - but if you want to persuade us to buy YOUR (British) products rather than someone else's - we do expect you to do this in German'. I think the same will apply if the UK comes out of Europe. Europe will continue to want to SELL TO THE UK, but not necessarily to BUY FROM IT.
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #256  
Old 27.02.2016, 05:05
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,266
Groaned at 131 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 11,526 Times in 5,023 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
I remember a group of German businessmen coming to speak to our German studying 6th Formers, via the Chamber of Commerce (in the UK) - about the value of learning German.

And the message was clear- 'we will speak perfect English to sell to YOU - but if you want to persuade us to buy YOUR (British) products rather than someone else's - we do expect you to do this in German'. I think the same will apply if the UK comes out of Europe. Europe will continue to want to SELL TO THE UK, but not necessarily to BUY FROM IT.
Bravo!

The industry I come from would collapse without it's European multi-lingual staff because British schools simply don't churn out candidates who are fluent in anything other than English, and some are barely that.

In one of our offices, of 115 staff, only 6 were fluent in a second language, 5 of whom were European migrants. In my last office, one of the teams had about 80% multi-lingual staff, the vast majority of whom were European migrants.

When I think that my grandfather spoke 6 languages, my great-uncle 16 languages and dialects, and my OH 5 languages (3 of them completely fluently), I'm ashamed that I only speak one fluently and can get by in a further 4.

Does anyone see any sign of the government investing in languages at school level?

I'm utterly convinced that leaving the EU would be a huge step backwards for the UK on so many levels that it beggars belief that anyone would consider it. Isolation is exactly that.

You can't change something and have a say if you're not even at the table.
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #257  
Old 27.02.2016, 14:43
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 90
Groaned at 22 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 491 Times in 262 Posts
NomadAmericano is considered knowledgeableNomadAmericano is considered knowledgeableNomadAmericano is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Bravo!

The industry I come from would collapse without it's European multi-lingual staff because British schools simply don't churn out candidates who are fluent in anything other than English, and some are barely that.

In one of our offices, of 115 staff, only 6 were fluent in a second language, 5 of whom were European migrants. In my last office, one of the teams had about 80% multi-lingual staff, the vast majority of whom were European migrants.

When I think that my grandfather spoke 6 languages, my great-uncle 16 languages and dialects, and my OH 5 languages (3 of them completely fluently), I'm ashamed that I only speak one fluently and can get by in a further 4.

Does anyone see any sign of the government investing in languages at school level?

I'm utterly convinced that leaving the EU would be a huge step backwards for the UK on so many levels that it beggars belief that anyone would consider it. Isolation is exactly that.

You can't change something and have a say if you're not even at the table.
I don't have the same level of concern with your valid point re language skills. There's nothing stopping a post-Brexit UK from allowing in non-UK workers with foreign language skills. The EU will not ban such workers from emigrating.
  #258  
Old 27.02.2016, 15:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,845
Groaned at 798 Times in 676 Posts
Thanked 25,709 Times in 13,440 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I think FMOP is a red herring. I think the most likely scenarios would be that the UK would still have the same FMOP obligations, in fact all the obligations under acquis communautaire.

An alternative would be to push for a FTA with the EU - though I remain sceptical as to whether this would leave the UK in a better position than if it were in the single market. I think FTA is the position advocated by UKIP.

To be honest, the whole sorry Brexit issue just shows what a pigs ear the UK has made of the EU. It has totally failed to push through a liberalisation of the market for services which would be of great benefit to the UK (and would be unlikely to do so outside the single market) and that idiot Tony Blair to rub salt in the wound gave up part of the rebate and got nothing in return losing over £10bn just in the first few years. On top of that we agreed to QMV and lost veto powers. Were our politicians on drugs when they destroyed our power and negotiating position in the EU?
The elephant in the room is the single common market with common standards. If Britain votes to leave then it will be very hard plus take a very long time to find a decent replacement trading deal for our exports.

Take a look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) which is one of the most ambitious free trade agreements ever. So for those who think the EU takes away UK sovereignty look at TPP clauses like "it paves the way for companies to sue governments that change policy on, say, health and education to favour state-provided services".
Plus it took 7 years to negotiate
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #259  
Old 27.02.2016, 15:19
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,845
Groaned at 798 Times in 676 Posts
Thanked 25,709 Times in 13,440 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
However the most likely scenario is that rather than causing harm to BOTH economies, they'd hastily negotiate a new trade deal as it would be the most sensible thing to do.
Obviously not; if that was the case the EU would have given way on the FMOP point already.

So you believe that as soon as UK leaves the EU will forget about FMOP, come on!

There have been suggestions that UK should join EFTA but I doubt they would allow a new member to join without also joining the European Economic Area (EEA) which has pretty much the same clauses (like FMOP) that UK objects to.
  #260  
Old 27.02.2016, 19:54
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,358
Groaned at 336 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 26,266 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Obviously not; if that was the case the EU would have given way on the FMOP point already.

So you believe that as soon as UK leaves the EU will forget about FMOP, come on!

There have been suggestions that UK should join EFTA but I doubt they would allow a new member to join without also joining the European Economic Area (EEA) which has pretty much the same clauses (like FMOP) that UK objects to.
Well, they have admitted being tough on CH in order not to create a precedent for the UK, so it is a will not rather than a can not problem. The question is how long Merkel can avoid a rebellion within her own government. Maybe her successor will be more magnanimous and less of an all or nothing type.
Closed Thread

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (0 members and 11 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0