The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

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	As opposed to the 0.0001% who have the say now? #cynical

Indeed, but we're still trying to iron out "value", no?

[fatmanfilms]

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	Find a definition of value that doesn't discriminate or marginalize.

Why is discrimination a problem in this instance, it's based on success, just as exam results discriminate.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why is discrimination a problem in this instance, it's based on success, just as exam results discriminate.

No, it is based on earnings.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why is discrimination a problem in this instance, it's based on success, just as exam results discriminate.

Because the notion of "value" can not just be based on amount of tax paid, in this hypothetic situation, it's discriminatory.


Why/how, in your view, do exam results discriminate?

How are taxes paid link to success unless there is only a very narrow definition of success which is purely fiscal. Which brings us back to the question of how value is defined.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why is discrimination a problem in this instance, it's based on success, just as exam results discriminate.

Define success.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why is discrimination a problem in this instance, it's based on success, just as exam results discriminate.

Successful people usually find a way to pay very low taxes!

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	Define success.

Checkmate.

	Quote:	marton
	People who are paid a lot in certain fields and who have flexible morals usually find someone who can help them pay very low taxes!

Fixed that for you

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	Why/how, in your view, do exam results discriminate?

They're the very definition of discrimination. They allow a future employer or educator to discriminate in favour of those who have achieved better exam results.

There's a tendency to believe that any discrimination is bad, but it's always with us. Discriminating based on irrational grounds like gender or race is now seen as bad (quite rightly, but it was not always so) but there are still may areas where discrimination based on ability or other factors is not only acceptable but absolutely essential.

How does this work?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	marton
	Successful people usually find a way to pay very low taxes!

Sometimes by just moving to another country....

Not always necessarily "tricky". Or half/semi-moral.

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	there are still may areas where discrimination based on ability or other factors is not only acceptable but absolutely essential.

And how we wish the forum was one of them

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	They're the very definition of discrimination. They allow a future employer or educator to discriminate in favour of those who have achieved better exam results. There's a tendency to believe that any discrimination is bad, but it's always with us. Discriminating based on irrational grounds like gender or race is now seen as bad (quite rightly, but it was not always so) but there are still may areas where discrimination based on ability or other factors is not only acceptable but absolutely essential.

Ah. I see. A semantic issue from you. How droll. I doubt this is the reason FMF was hinting at, but obviously until he responds we'll never truly know, will we.


The results enable this kind of discrimination. However in a system where education is free and mandatory and the exam system is in theory accessible to all, it's actually one of the only level playing fields there is. If you define some of the facets of succes as including hard work and application of skills learned and developed. Native intelligence, however, is of course the wild card. And that does not always translate into employment or moolah.

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	Ah. I see. A semantic issue.

Eh? Not at all. Unless you're just inferring a very specific and limited meaning of the word "discrimination".

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	The results enable this kind of discrimination.

Well yes, but that's exactly what you were questioning:

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	Why/how, in your view, do exam results discriminate?

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	Eh? Not at all. Unless you're just inferring a very specific and limited meaning of the word "discrimination". Well yes, but that's exactly what you were questioning:

Nope. Maybe it's how you read it. But as you say, discrimination is usually a pejorative . Here it would perhaps be better to say exam results enable selection. But that doesn't sound that much better.

Specifically I was asking FMF, hence the wording of my question.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Sometimes by just moving to another country.... Not always necessarily "tricky". Or half/semi-moral.

Village or canton in CH

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Village or canton in CH

That's not the same. I'm surprised you think it is.

[fatmanfilms]

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	Ah. I see. A semantic issue from you. How droll. I doubt this is the reason FMF was hinting at, but obviously until he responds we'll never truly know, will we. The results enable this kind of discrimination. However in a system where education is free and mandatory and the exam system is in theory accessible to all, it's actually one of the only level playing fields there is. If you define some of the facets of succes as including hard work and application of skills learned and developed. Native intelligence, however, is of course the wild card. And that does not always translate into employment or moolah.

No need to answer & be bullied further by you as Ace clearly explained to you exactly what I meant

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	But as you say, discrimination is usually a pejorative.

I never said that. Please try to refrain from inferring non-stated opinions, it's not helpful, nor does it support your case.

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	I never said that. Please try to refrain from inferring non-stated opinions, it's not helpful, nor does it support your case.

I think there is some confusion between "discrimination" and "selection". You would be "selected" based on your education but "discriminated" if the person doing the recruiting took someone else because, in their opinion, they were educated at a more "prestigious" establishment, despite coming out with pretty much the same result.

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	They're the very definition of discrimination. They allow a future employer or educator to discriminate in favour of those who have achieved better exam results. There's a tendency to believe that any discrimination is bad, but it's always with us. Discriminating based on irrational grounds like gender or race is now seen as bad (quite rightly, but it was not always so) but there are still may areas where discrimination based on ability or other factors is not only acceptable but absolutely essential.

Bit of a pointless route the thread has taken in relation to Brexit, but this seems to have been where the misunderstanding took place.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	No need to answer & be bullied further by you as Ace clearly explained to you exactly what I meant

I find your non-responses and attempts at passive-aggressive bullying behaviours very tiresome.

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	I never said that. Please try to refrain from inferring non-stated opinions, it's not helpful, nor does it support your case.

You said there's a tendency to view discrimination as a bad thing. Or something. I was agreeing with you. Please refrain from assuming you are the only one with a valid perspective. It's also tiresome behaviour.

What case? I've been floating hypotheticals.

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	I think there is some confusion between "discrimination" and "selection". You would be "selected" based on your education but "discriminated" if the person doing the recruiting took someone else because, in their opinion, they were educated at a more "prestigious" establishment, despite coming out with pretty much the same result. Bit of a pointless route the thread has taken in relation to Brexit, but this seems to have been where the misunderstanding took place.

Exactly this. Selection has far more positive connotations.

Yeah. Most of this thread is full fairly pointless cul-de-sacs.