The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:
	If you don't run on fixed policies, then this is even worse. Stop picking out single users - given that you have the power on here, that is actual bullying. Also, start having some policies, this scattergun approach is ridiculous.

Ah, but is it? Is there actually a spoon?

I'm still waiting on examples of a personal attack.


If i called someone an underhand cretin, that's unacceptable? Yes or no?

Accusing someone of displaying underhanded cretinous behaviour is subtly different and therefore acceptable? Yes or no?
Do we need a poll?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	It's privilege if your parents can afford c. 25k a year. That's more than the average UK salary. To argue that it isn't is naive in the extreme. As for the schools paying.... scholarships are very scarce and rarely pay the full whack. But if your parents can afford the fees without wincing and cutting back elsewhere I guess you grow up not really understanding how the rest of the world works. No chips here. Why do you ask? You seem intrigued by me. Are you flirting? You are, aren't you. You rogue, you. Well... since you didn't ask... I'm a secret millionaire trucker from Dover and I like my men like my beer. Stout. Rich. Good head.

About 50% of the UK students paid 20% of fees or less at the time, mainly bursaries, the full fees were substantially less than average earnings of £5k a year at the time. School fees inflation has exceeded average earnings over the past 40 plus years when I was at school. I think most of the parents even paying 10 or 20% of fees were seriously cutting back elsewhere, tax rates were very much higher back then, base rate of 34% rising to 84% above 20k of income. Good old Labour government

I guess my understanding of how the rest of the UK works is better than your view, I correctly predicted the referendum result & the result of the election in this thread. You hopelessly misread the population.

Not intrigued at all, just can't understand how you continue to flog a dead horse, long after the race has finished.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	About 50% of the UK students paid 20% of fees or less at the time, mainly bursaries, the full fees were substantially less than average earnings of £5k a year at the time. School fees inflation has exceeded average earnings over the past 40 plus years when I was at school. I think most of the parents even paying 10 or 20% of fees were seriously cutting back elsewhere, tax rates were very much higher back then, base rate of 34% rising to 84% above 20k of income. Good old Labour government I guess my understanding of how the rest of the UK works is better than your view, I correctly predicted the referendum result & the result of the election in this thread. You hopelessly misread the population. Not intrigued at all, just can't understand how you continue to flog a dead horse, long after the race has finished.

I get the impression our life experiences are poles apart, true. You don't like what i think, fine, but there is no need to be so unpleasant about it is there?

What horse am I flogging? You appear to be the one displaying obsessive behaviours.

And school fees have clearly gone up since you were a ahirt button. You'd know that if your finger was really on the pulse.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	About 50% of the UK students paid 20% of fees or less at the time, mainly bursaries, the full fees were substantially less than average earnings of £5k a year at the time. School fees inflation has exceeded average earnings over the past 40 plus years when I was at school. I think most of the parents even paying 10 or 20% of fees were seriously cutting back elsewhere, tax rates were very much higher back then, base rate of 34% rising to 84% above 20k of income. Good old Labour government I guess my understanding of how the rest of the UK works is better than your view, I correctly predicted the referendum result & the result of the election in this thread. You hopelessly misread the population. Not intrigued at all, just can't understand how you continue to flog a dead horse, long after the race has finished.

Public school scholarships must have changed a lot. There’s about 10% of kids get them now and none or a tiny percentage at full fee scholarships.

Non EU students don’t pay more, usually a small admin fee (a few 100) per term presumably for organising airport transfers etc.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I'm still waiting on examples of a personal attack.

Who mentioned a personal attack, other than you in your report to the mods?

	Quote:
	Public school scholarships must have changed a lot. There’s about 10% of kids get them now and none or a tiny percentage at full fee scholarships. Non EU students don’t pay more, usually a small admin fee (a few 100) per term presumably for organising airport transfers etc.

I only went to 1 school, it was not run in quite the same was as other public schools, foreign kids paid a multiple of standard fees, most paid way in excess of 200% depending on how rich they were & how much they wanted their kid to go to the school. Not unusual to have a Crown prince & a coal miners kid sharing a dormitory with 6 or 7 others.

[Blueangel]

Three pages later, I'm still laughing at the idea of Raab being 'relatable' and PM material.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Not intrigued at all, just can't understand how you continue to flog a dead horse, long after the race has finished.

Oh, c'mon, be fair now. Criticism against politicians is a very good thing, whether they won or didn't, are in power or not...it's not important. I suppose none of us admires North Korea...? Try to see it that way, seriously. RufusB is entitled to her opinions like everyone else.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I only went to 1 school, it was not run in quite the same was as other public schools, foreign kids paid a multiple of standard fees, most paid way in excess of 200% depending on how rich they were & how much they wanted their kid to go to the school. Not unusual to have a Crown prince & a coal miners kid sharing a dormitory with 6 or 7 others.

Well, they charge the Crown prince more because they have to subsidise the coal miner's kid somehow...

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Three pages later, I'm still laughing at the idea of Raab being 'relatable' and PM material.

Why? Much better than Boris, no?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Your opinion about the referendum is just your own opinion. I don’t think the electorate was stupid (exceptions, obvs). They were simply misled by charlatans with the biggest budget. There’s a difference.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Where did things become so bad and the public so easily manipulated, I have no idea. I thought it was more specific to weaker democracies, but no. It's a global trend.

Three separate votes and the public chose Brexit. Three and a half years of being told they were lied to and misled. Do you not think it’s time you move on from this argument?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Tony does not understand much about US politics... it would be very hard to find any US politician on either side that would vote for anything that endangers the Good Friday agreement, there are too many votes in it to be branded the politician that cause things to kick off again in NI.

	Quote:	John William
	And there's still a big majority of anti-Trump Democrats in the Senate no matter whether Nancy stays or goes, who have the bit between their teeth, now that Impeachments taken off.

You really think that Congress would block a trade deal to spite Trump? Well in the current kindergarten of US politics you could be right! However it’s a big risk to take. It doesn’t matter in any case, if the UK is making rapid progress in US negotiations I don’t think the EU would be too willing to gamble on Congress blocking the deal. Especially after President Macron has managed to burn his bridges with President Trump.

[TonyClifton]

The Financial Times reported yesterday that the EU commission has proposed a new “plastic tax” on non reuseable plastics in order to plug the hole in the budget caused by the UK leaving the EU.

It’s sad reflection on the EU if they proceed with this and demonstrates a lack of foresight. A tax revenue entirely dependent on maintaining plastic pollution levels.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Three separate votes and the public chose Brexit. Three and a half years of being told they were lied to and misled. Do you not think it’s time you move on from this argument?

Why? It’s still valid.

Just because it’s three plus years down the line it doesn’t cancel out the utter untruths and made-up stats which were purely there to win votes.

If I lie about my taxes or paying a bill or lamping someone in a pub, the law doesn’t simply start accepting my story because a good couple of years have passed.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The Financial Times reported yesterday that the EU commission has proposed a new “plastic tax” on non reuseable plastics in order to plug the hole in the budget caused by the UK leaving the EU. It’s sad reflection on the EU if they proceed with this and demonstrates a lack of foresight. A tax revenue entirely dependent on maintaining plastic pollution levels.

Maybe it is because they want people to use fewer plastic bottles.

Not everything is about you.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Maybe it is because they want people to use fewer plastic bottles. Not everything is about you.

Then why not ban non-reusable plastics? Would be a good thing.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Then why not ban non-reusable plastics? Would be a good thing.

I suspect that is in the pipeline, but presumably it is impractical at present.

Bottles are an easy, quick win and represent about 75% of all plastic containers, so scope to make a big impact on plastic usage.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	It’s sad reflection on the EU if they proceed with this and demonstrates a lack of foresight. A tax revenue entirely dependent on maintaining plastic pollution levels.

It's more likely to concentrate the minds of the member states and hurry along research into replacing single use / non-recyclable plastics to reduce the tax.

Here's the link you missed.

[amogles]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The Financial Times reported yesterday that the EU commission has proposed a new “plastic tax” on non reuseable plastics in order to plug the hole in the budget caused by the UK leaving the EU. It’s sad reflection on the EU if they proceed with this and demonstrates a lack of foresight. A tax revenue entirely dependent on maintaining plastic pollution levels.

It’s the way politics works unfortunately.

They also say they’d rather people didn’t smoke but happily gobble up tobacco duties . Many other examples too .

In my view this type of windfall revenue should not vanish into general spending but be reserved for mitigation in the specific area it is trying to address. That way if the problem is reduced so is the need for money to do something about it.

But whoever heard of an honest politician ?

	Quote:	amogles
	It’s the way politics works unfortunately. They also say they’d rather people didn’t smoke but happily gobble up tobacco duties . Many other examples too . In my view this type of windfall revenue should not vanish into general spending but be reserved for mitigation in the specific area it is trying to address. That way if the problem is reduced so is the need for money to do something about it. But whoever heard of an honest politician ?

Absolutely, I would be in favour of rolling this out across all things that generate expenses. Sugar tax, smoking tax, alcohol tax - and it should be enough to cover the added expenses incurred to the NHS by said group of people.

I can't wait for the fossil fuel tax tbh; if people actually had to pay to cover what we'll need to spend due to climate change, then everyone would be jumping on the bus!

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	I can't wait for the fossil fuel tax

Yes, amazing that there is no tax on fossil fuel

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Yes, amazing that there is no tax on fossil fuel

There are huge subsidies which I am sure more than make up for the taxes.

You'll notice I did mention that I wanted taxes that covered actual (financial) damage created by the various industries - you can't believe whichever taxes (minus subsidies) the oil / coal industry pays comes anywhere close to the damage being done?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Three separate votes and the public chose Brexit. Three and a half years of being told they were lied to and misled. Do you not think it’s time you move on from this argument?

You are making a point I didn't make. My observation was general, but for the sake of the argument I didn't actually make, I'll try one more time.

People can't just move on, as they couldn't just move on after Trump was elected. And now you can see yourself they were right....Do you not understand such a thing? Brexit is done, and few people argue that anymore in case you didn't notice. Stop making arguments people don't make. However, they're not happy with those politicians who actually put Brexit in practice. Do you understand? It is not that complicated, seriously.

Even if a party/person won the election, they'll have to hear critics and reminders of the way they won - lies and deceit till the end of the time because the public rarely forgets. DO YOU UNDERSTAND how democracy works?

What are you trying to do here, censorship? Who would that help?

If you can't or are unwilling to understand, take that: nobody will be silenced because someone on the internet tells them so. Accept it and move on, do what you preach.