The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Ace1
	They're the very definition of discrimination. They allow a future employer or educator to discriminate in favour of those who have achieved better exam results. There's a tendency to believe that any discrimination is bad, but it's always with us. Discriminating based on irrational grounds like gender or race is now seen as bad (quite rightly, but it was not always so) but there are still may areas where discrimination based on ability or other factors is not only acceptable but absolutely essential.

Ah. I see. A semantic issue from you. How droll. I doubt this is the reason FMF was hinting at, but obviously until he responds we'll never truly know, will we.


The results enable this kind of discrimination. However in a system where education is free and mandatory and the exam system is in theory accessible to all, it's actually one of the only level playing fields there is. If you define some of the facets of succes as including hard work and application of skills learned and developed. Native intelligence, however, is of course the wild card. And that does not always translate into employment or moolah.

[Ace1]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Ah. I see. A semantic issue.

Eh? Not at all. Unless you're just inferring a very specific and limited meaning of the word "discrimination".

	Quote:	RufusB
	The results enable this kind of discrimination.

Well yes, but that's exactly what you were questioning:

	Quote:	RufusB
	Why/how, in your view, do exam results discriminate?

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Ace1
	Eh? Not at all. Unless you're just inferring a very specific and limited meaning of the word "discrimination". Well yes, but that's exactly what you were questioning:

Nope. Maybe it's how you read it. But as you say, discrimination is usually a pejorative . Here it would perhaps be better to say exam results enable selection. But that doesn't sound that much better.

Specifically I was asking FMF, hence the wording of my question.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Sometimes by just moving to another country.... Not always necessarily "tricky". Or half/semi-moral.

Village or canton in CH

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Village or canton in CH

That's not the same. I'm surprised you think it is.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Ah. I see. A semantic issue from you. How droll. I doubt this is the reason FMF was hinting at, but obviously until he responds we'll never truly know, will we. The results enable this kind of discrimination. However in a system where education is free and mandatory and the exam system is in theory accessible to all, it's actually one of the only level playing fields there is. If you define some of the facets of succes as including hard work and application of skills learned and developed. Native intelligence, however, is of course the wild card. And that does not always translate into employment or moolah.

No need to answer & be bullied further by you as Ace clearly explained to you exactly what I meant

[Ace1]

	Quote:	RufusB
	But as you say, discrimination is usually a pejorative.

I never said that. Please try to refrain from inferring non-stated opinions, it's not helpful, nor does it support your case.

	Quote:	Ace1
	I never said that. Please try to refrain from inferring non-stated opinions, it's not helpful, nor does it support your case.

I think there is some confusion between "discrimination" and "selection". You would be "selected" based on your education but "discriminated" if the person doing the recruiting took someone else because, in their opinion, they were educated at a more "prestigious" establishment, despite coming out with pretty much the same result.

	Quote:	Ace1
	They're the very definition of discrimination. They allow a future employer or educator to discriminate in favour of those who have achieved better exam results. There's a tendency to believe that any discrimination is bad, but it's always with us. Discriminating based on irrational grounds like gender or race is now seen as bad (quite rightly, but it was not always so) but there are still may areas where discrimination based on ability or other factors is not only acceptable but absolutely essential.

Bit of a pointless route the thread has taken in relation to Brexit, but this seems to have been where the misunderstanding took place.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	No need to answer & be bullied further by you as Ace clearly explained to you exactly what I meant

I find your non-responses and attempts at passive-aggressive bullying behaviours very tiresome.

	Quote:	Ace1
	I never said that. Please try to refrain from inferring non-stated opinions, it's not helpful, nor does it support your case.

You said there's a tendency to view discrimination as a bad thing. Or something. I was agreeing with you. Please refrain from assuming you are the only one with a valid perspective. It's also tiresome behaviour.

What case? I've been floating hypotheticals.

	Quote:
	I think there is some confusion between "discrimination" and "selection". You would be "selected" based on your education but "discriminated" if the person doing the recruiting took someone else because, in their opinion, they were educated at a more "prestigious" establishment, despite coming out with pretty much the same result. Bit of a pointless route the thread has taken in relation to Brexit, but this seems to have been where the misunderstanding took place.

Exactly this. Selection has far more positive connotations.

Yeah. Most of this thread is full fairly pointless cul-de-sacs.

[fatmanfilms]

Back on topic EU wants zero tariffs & no quotas, being in the club & not paying

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ze...115340769.html

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Back on topic EU wants zero tariffs & no quotas, being in the club & not paying https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ze...115340769.html

Looks like the new EU commission has much more common sense than the previous.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Back on topic EU wants zero tariffs & no quotas, being in the club & not paying https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ze...115340769.html

Let's hope so.

But...

	Quote:
	“Without the free movement of people, you cannot have the free movement of capital, goods, and service. Without a level playing field on environment, labour, taxation, and state aid, you cannot have the highest quality access to the world’s largest single market,” she said. “The more divergence, the more distance the partnership will be.”

Looks like BoJo is also going to have to compromise on club membership rules.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:
	That's not the same. I'm surprised you think it is.

How is it not the same?

Tom

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Looks like the new EU commission has much more common sense than the previous.

I do like your optimism

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	Successful people usually find a way to pay very low taxes!

That’s why they are successful, they look at income & expenditure, trying to cut costs & one of the biggest costs is taxation

	Quote:	UvdL
	“Without the free movement of people, you cannot have the free movement of capital, goods, and service. Without a level playing field on environment, labour, taxation, and state aid, you cannot have the highest quality access to the world’s largest single market,” she said. “The more divergence, the more distance the partnership will be.”

	Quote:
	Looks like BoJo is also going to have to compromise on club membership rules.

Don't quote things half way through an article, you know many people on here don't read beyond a headline.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	The results enable this kind of discrimination. However in a system where education is free and mandatory and the exam system is in theory accessible to all, it's actually one of the only level playing fields there is. If you define some of the facets of succes as including hard work and application of skills learned and developed. Native intelligence, however, is of course the wild card. And that does not always translate into employment or moolah.

How about discrimination in Sport? Why is it acceptable in Tennis to give women a chance of winning a prize by separating the sex's, yet claim that is unacceptable in employment. Looks like double standards to me.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	How about discrimination in Sport? Why is it acceptable in Tennis to give women a chance of winning a prize by separating the sex's, yet claim that is unacceptable in employment. Looks like double standards to me.

I’ll give you 2 million quid if you can push a human head first out of your clacker

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	How about discrimination in Sport? Why is it acceptable in Tennis to give women a chance of winning a prize by separating the sex's, yet claim that is unacceptable in employment. Looks like double standards to me.

Tbh, I think V. Williams would win the man grand slam.

But I agree that people are selective when it comes to advantages.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	How about discrimination in Sport? Why is it acceptable in Tennis to give women a chance of winning a prize by separating the sex's, yet claim that is unacceptable in employment. Looks like double standards to me.

Certainly does.

	Quote:
	I’ll give you 2 million quid if you can push a human head first out of your clacker

I have tea all over my tablet screen.