The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The only comparison between Boris Johnson and Donald Trump to be made is the irrational nature that certain people react when hearing their names. That said, lets keep Donald Trump's name away from here for the time being. There is like a whole other debate going on full of ludicrous examples of said irrationality, like access to abortion for women in Alabama is comparable the oppression of women in Iran, or that internment of Japanese Americans in 1942 is somehow equivalent or relevant to what's going on in Iran today. If you're interested and want to read some real crazy stuff, go and have a look, you won't believe it!

I've read plenty, history and human nature fascinate me. Again: not everyone is defending that regime. Actually, no-one on the other thread/debate that you know..

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Her. But I suppose.

It all depends on who you want to protect in the future or at death, yourself, your partner, your children from a previous marriage, future care costs or IHT.

You cant change from tenants in common to joint tenants however it's just a form going the other way.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It all depends on who you want to protect in the future or at death, yourself, your partner, your children from a previous marriage, future care costs or IHT. You cant change from tenants in common to joint tenants however it's just a form going the other way.

AFAIK you get the option to decide every time you sort a house purchase. But is moot, for me anyway.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	...................Anyway, I'm outta here. Enjoy your doing down of the US and President Trump.

Not long after claiming "I'm outta here"

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The only comparison between Boris Johnson and Donald Trump to be made is the irrational nature that certain people react when hearing their names. That said, lets keep Donald Trump's name away from here for the time being. There is like a whole other debate going on full of ludicrous examples of said irrationality, like access to abortion for women in Alabama is comparable the oppression of women in Iran, or that internment of Japanese Americans in 1942 is somehow equivalent or relevant to what's going on in Iran today. If you're interested and want to read some real crazy stuff, go and have a look, you won't believe it!

After losing the discussion in the Trump thread he is now exporting his fact-free opinions here

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	Not long after claiming "I'm outta here" After losing the discussion in the Trump thread he is now exporting his fact-free opinions here

You do like to provoke don’t you?! At least you’re not the only one! I didn’t “lose” any discussion for your information, I just refuse to engage with irrational bullies that have a mob mentality.

Brexit is a separate discussion yet it didn’t stop a member bringing up Donald Trump’s name (which I suspect was merely another provocation). Much of what was said on the other discussion was such groundless, offensive nonsense that it just doesn’t warrant any sort of response.

I have to keep reminding myself that the internet is not the real world, and some of the power users on this forum seem to be as far removed from that as one can imagine. There is hope though as is displayed on this discussion. There was a very similar atmosphere here before the General Election last year, with equally nonsensical arguments being made. Following the result however it became a lot more quieter, reasonable and more civil. Amazing what a dose of the real world will do for people!

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	You do like to provoke don’t you?! At least you’re not the only one! I didn’t “lose” any discussion for your information, I just refuse to engage with irrational bullies that have a mob mentality. Brexit is a separate discussion yet it didn’t stop a member bringing up Donald Trump’s name (which I suspect was merely another provocation). Much of what was said on the other discussion was such groundless, offensive nonsense that it just doesn’t warrant any sort of response. I have to keep reminding myself that the internet is not the real world, and some of the power users on this forum seem to be as far removed from that as one can imagine. There is hope though as is displayed on this discussion. There was a very similar atmosphere here before the General Election last year, with equally nonsensical arguments being made. Following the result however it became a lot more quieter, reasonable and more civil. Amazing what a dose of the real world will do for people!

People have probably backed off because they’re bored of the endless groundless opinion and blinkered view you are attempting to dominate these threads with.

It’s pointless, boring and when someone points out that you are in fact, wrong, and backs it up with links and information you double down with your nonsense.

It was funny in the beginning. Now it’s just tedious noise.

You should start a blog where you can listen to yourself unchallenged.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	You do like to provoke don’t you?! At least you’re not the only one! I didn’t “lose” any discussion for your information, I just refuse to engage with irrational bullies that have a mob mentality. Brexit is a separate discussion yet it didn’t stop a member bringing up Donald Trump’s name (which I suspect was merely another provocation). Much of what was said on the other discussion was such groundless, offensive nonsense that it just doesn’t warrant any sort of response. I have to keep reminding myself that the internet is not the real world, and some of the power users on this forum seem to be as far removed from that as one can imagine. There is hope though as is displayed on this discussion. There was a very similar atmosphere here before the General Election last year, with equally nonsensical arguments being made. Following the result however it became a lot more quieter, reasonable and more civil. Amazing what a dose of the real world will do for people!

You do realise that this is a discussion forum where there are plenty of folk who have differing views. I find that folk are often labelled as irrational when the brain froth becomes too saturated. There is no bullying in this case. No "mob mentality" in the disagreements. However there is a group of individuals whose views, in these instances, align/overlap/ concur/ whatever who are just as vocal as you. This isn't a soap box or a monologue arena.

If anything you are the one making endless accusations because, like a frustrated four year old who wants to win, it's not fair, they won't listen, they're not playing properly.

It's very clear to me that the world you think you live in and the one that actually exists are quite different. With some overlap. Need another Venn.

	Quote:
	People have probably backed off because they’re bored of the endless groundless opinion and blinkered view you are attempting to dominate these threads with. It’s pointless, boring and when someone points out that you are in fact, wrong, and backs it up with links and information you double down with your nonsense. It was funny in the beginning. Now it’s just tedious noise. You should start a blog where you can listen to yourself unchallenged.

Exactly this. You are relentlessly, unnecessarily, combative and adamant that anyone not wholeheartedly agreeing with you is some sort of blinkered idiot.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Anyway, I'm outta here.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	...Today's nonsense...

That might be the world record for quickest flounce and return in EF history. Welcome back TC!

[amogles]

	Quote:
	There is no bullying. No "mob mentality". However there is a group of individuals whose views, in these instances, align/overlap/ concur/ whatever who are just as vocal as you. This isn't a soap box or a monologue arena.

Ahem.

Quite a lot of long time posters left because the bullying was getting too bad.

Quite a lot of newbies quit after their first thread because of the bullying.

We definitely do have a bullying problem on the EF. A big bullying problem.

Maybe not everywhere or by everybody, or in all cases. But let's not pretend it doesn't exist. Please.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	We definitely do have a bullying problem on the EF.

Definitely. It remains to debate which bullying is OK and which is not. Double standards - another problem that EF definitely has.

The funny part is that we've asked the mods to come up with a set of "universal" rules and they declined.

	Quote:	amogles
	Ahem. Quite a lot of long time posters left because the bullying was getting too bad. Quite a lot of newbies quit after their first thread because of the bullying. We definitely do have a bullying problem on the EF. Maybe not everywhere or by everybody, or in all cases. But let's not pretend it doesn't exist. Please.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying it doesn't exist where Tony Clifton says it does. I've edited my previous post to, hopefully, make that clear.

Bullying is vile, pervasive, takes a myriad forms and should be tackled. However hurt feelings do not always equate to bullying. Likewise when a lone voice faces a group it does not necessarily follow that said group is a bullying mob.

Sometimes folk cry "bully" when they are losing an argument/ are disagreed with en masse because, I suppose, it's more of a face saver. I don't know. I do know that false accusations weaken the case for the actual instances of bullying. Of which, I agree, there's an awful lot of on here. Also double standards.

	Quote:	amogles
	Quite a lot of long time posters left because the bullying was getting too bad.

I seem to remember a lot of them were a bit too generous with terms like "leftie", "libtard", "social justice warrior", "cuck" and "snowflake" when trying to get their opinion heard on here.

	Quote:
	I seem to remember a lot of them were a bit too generous with terms like "leftie", "libtard", "social justice warrior", "cuck" and "snowflake" when trying to get their opinion heard on here.

Ah yes but one is only a snowflake etc when one is deemed to be unnecessarily bothered by stuff other folk are not bothered by...

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	I seem to remember a lot of them were a bit too generous with terms like "leftie", "libtard", "social justice warrior", "cuck" and "snowflake" when trying to get their opinion heard on here.

You forgot virtue signalling, posturing.....

	Quote:	greenmount
	You forgot virtue signalling, posturing.....

Group think is another one. Hysteria is one of my favourites.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Group think is another one. Hysteria is one of my favourites.

Echo chamber?

There was no other place I could have ever learned to master these terms and the casual ahem...things beneath them, and for that I'm grateful.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Echo chamber? There was no other place I could have ever learned to master these terms and the casual ahem...things beneath them, and for that I'm grateful.

Ooh yes. Good one.

Wrong thread if you're grateful...

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	You do realise that this is a discussion forum where there are plenty of folk who have differing views. I find that folk are often labelled as irrational when the brain froth becomes too saturated. There is no bullying in this case. No "mob mentality" in the disagreements. However there is a group of individuals whose views, in these instances, align/overlap/ concur/ whatever who are just as vocal as you. This isn't a soap box or a monologue arena. If anything you are the one making endless accusations because, like a frustrated four year old who wants to win, it's not fair, they won't listen, they're not playing properly. It's very clear to me that the world you think you live in and the one that actually exists are quite different. With some overlap. Need another Venn. Exactly this. You are relentlessly, unnecessarily, combative and adamant that anyone not wholeheartedly agreeing with you is some sort of blinkered idiot.

No no no no no. You are not being fair! I am not combative, nor have I a problem with a difference of opinion. What I won't accept nor engage in is a relentless wave of tu quoque because there is clearly an agenda and shared opinion that goes beyond the topic being discussed!

And for your information it is bullying that goes on here. There's been enough proof and evidence from other people that it should be clear enough to you all. It doesn't help when so called "moderators" participate either! Sending passive aggressive messages, groaning almost anything that one writes for no other reason than to intimidate.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	No no no no no. You are not being fair! I am not combative, nor have I a problem with a difference of opinion. What I won't accept nor engage in is a relentless wave of tu quoque because there is clearly an agenda and shared opinion that goes beyond the topic being discussed! And for your information it is bullying that goes on here. There's been enough proof and evidence from other people that it should be clear enough to you all. It doesn't help when so called "moderators" participate either! Sending passive aggressive messages, groaning almost anything that one writes for no other reason than to intimidate.

I'm afraid what little credibility you had before your grand exit, has evaporated after the meek return.

I suspect a good few others will join me in consigning you to the history bin of the ignore list.

It was a good effort TC, but you've become a bit transparent.

Soooo, ignore list freshly updated, back to Brexit...

	Quote:
	The Irish border could yet snag Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, with experts saying it will be impossible to deliver the computer systems for the special arrangements for Northern Ireland by the end of this year. Failure to implement the new systems will risk legal action by the European commission against Britain, the Institute for Government says.