The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	It doesn't help when so called "moderators" participate either! Sending passive aggressive messages, groaning almost anything that one writes for no other reason than to intimidate.

Or using "reverse psychology" - thanking every post made by people who seem to dislike those people they too dislike. Or at least antagonize them somehow. I agree, it doesn't help at all!

I propose an easy exercise of tolerance: let's try to agree with those we don't like at least once in a while. It's easy and should be practiced by anyone. Trust me, this is not an impossible exercise that even Dalai Lama would find difficult to accomplish. What do you think?

	Quote:
	Ooh yes. Good one. Wrong thread if you're grateful...

I'll be more careful next time!

[TonyClifton]

Appropriate for the two people that offer up least in terms of the discussion but the most in twisting of words and snide and baiting comments. At least my user experience will improve as a result! Ignore reciprocated, thanks!

[marton]

	Quote:
	Soooo, ignore list freshly updated, back to Brexit... Quote: The Irish border could yet snag Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, with experts saying it will be impossible to deliver the computer systems for the special arrangements for Northern Ireland by the end of this year. Failure to implement the new systems will risk legal action by the European Commission against Britain, the Institute for Government says.

One key point from your link is that this is a chicken and egg situation! They cannot even begin developing the new computer systems before they know what the new UK/EU trade deal will look like. Currently, most experts do not believe this deal can be finished by the end of 2020 as Boris has written into UK law.

If the UK does finish up in court for not implementing the withdrawal agreement with respect to Ireland then how will the US Congress view approval of any UK trade deal. Congress is committed to ensuring the Good Friday agreement is maintained and the UK not implementing the withdrawal agreement would not be welcomed.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	No no no no no. You are not being fair! I am not combative, nor have I a problem with a difference of opinion. What I won't accept nor engage in is a relentless wave of tu quoque because there is clearly an agenda and shared opinion that goes beyond the topic being discussed! And for your information it is bullying that goes on here. There's been enough proof and evidence from other people that it should be clear enough to you all. It doesn't help when so called "moderators" participate either! Sending passive aggressive messages, groaning almost anything that one writes for no other reason than to intimidate.

I am being entirely fair - you no doubt believe yourself entirely fair too.

I agree that there is bullying on EF however I maintain you have not been bullied. Disagreed with wholesale yes,for your constant opinion as fact and empty statements, but not bullied.

Then why relentlessly attempt to swat down those who disagree and write in grandiose "we" statements?

How is there a shared agenda? Folk will agree or they will disagree.

Actually, never mind. Have at it.

[Ouchboy]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	No no no no no. You are not being fair! I am not combative, nor have I a problem with a difference of opinion. What I won't accept nor engage in is a relentless wave of tu quoque because there is clearly an agenda and shared opinion that goes beyond the topic being discussed! And for your information it is bullying that goes on here. There's been enough proof and evidence from other people that it should be clear enough to you all. It doesn't help when so called "moderators" participate either! Sending passive aggressive messages, groaning almost anything that one writes for no other reason than to intimidate.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	groaning almost anything that one writes for no other reason than to intimidate.

No, it's because it rubbish trolling at it's lamest.

Tom

Taking back control...

	Quote:
	Two former Tory MPs including Boris Johnson’s friend Zac Goldsmith have been sworn into the House of Lords so they can keep their ministerial jobs. Goldsmith, who was ousted by voters in the December election, has become Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park, the seat that he lost, and will keep his job as an environment and development minister. Nicky Morgan has been given the title Baroness Morgan of Cotes and unusually stays on as culture secretary in the cabinet, having decided to quit the Commons at the election citing “abuse” she suffered while Loughborough MP. The prime minister has been criticised for elevating the ermine-clad Tories to the Lords, and in particular Goldsmith, who is a friend of Johnson and his girlfriend Carrie Symonds.

	Quote:
	"Zac Goldsmith once criticised the EU for being "accountable to no-one". But after being rejected by the voters twice he finally gave up on democracy and became a Lord."

[marton]

	Quote:
	Taking back control...

Remember all that Brexit cr#p about "obeying the will of the people"?

	Quote:	marton
	Remember all that Brexit cr#p about "obeying the will of the people"?

...unless your mates are going to be tipped out of a job. Then you find a convenient loophole and get the press to sell it as "a great British tradition", and vilify anyone who dares to point out the astonishing hypocrisy.

	Quote:
	...unless your mates are going to be tipped out of a job. Then you find a convenient loophole and get the press to sell it as "a great British tradition", and vilify anyone who dares to point out the astonishing hypocrisy.

It makes a mockery of everything.

[marton]

Production of a key Vauxhall Astra variant is being shifted to Germany from the UK, raising fresh fears for the firm's Ellesmere Port plant in Cheshire.

Vauxhall owner PSA Group will make the Astra estate in Russelsheim from 2022 - ratcheting up pressure on Ellesmere Port and its 1,000 staff.

The estate model represents the vast bulk of the 59,000 cars which roll off the UK site's production line each year, and losing it is a severe blow.

The question now is "Will they invest in the facilities to build a new model in UK or not"?

Brexit set to cost us more than the previous 47 years of payments to the EU combined...

https://www.businessinsider.com/brex...20-1?r=US&IR=T

But hey, those blue passports...am i right?!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Brexit set to cost us more than the previous 47 years of payments to the EU combined... https://www.businessinsider.com/brex...20-1?r=US&IR=T But hey, those blue passports...am i right?!

Why is unemployment lower than before the referendum & why is the UK stock market higher? Clearly investors believe future profits will be higher so are valuing the future revenue stream accordingly.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why is unemployment lower than before the referendum & why is the UK stock market higher? Clearly investors believe future profits will be higher so are valuing the future revenue stream accordingly.

Unemployment figures are fudged due to zero-hours contracts. Would be interesting to see more realistic figures of people in permanent regular contracts before and after the referendum.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why is unemployment lower than before the referendum & why is the UK stock market higher? Clearly investors believe future profits will be higher so are valuing the future revenue stream accordingly.

Trending with the US stock market, as per always.

Maybe unemployment looks so good as in 2015 (last full year before referendum) about 750k people were on zero hour contracts, now about 900k are, so a 20% hike in usage since then.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Trending with the US stock market, as per always. Maybe unemployment looks so good as in 2015 (last full year before referendum) about 750k people were on zero hour contracts, now about 900k are, so a 20% hike in usage since then.

Whereas the RoEU economy does not seem to be riding the coattails of the US economy in the same way.

USA +2.35% in 2019
UK +1.34%
Germany +0.54%

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Unemployment figures are fudged due to zero-hours contracts. Would be interesting to see more realistic figures of people in permanent regular contracts before and after the referendum.

That has not changed since the referendum as you well know , so on identical counting methodology unemployment has fallen since the referendum. Facts are hard to swallow for some

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Trending with the US stock market, as per always.

US like Switzerland does not have to follow EU employment laws so will obviously have a more efficient & growing economies.

It's not following a trend, it's chasing higher profits in cash. US is rising faster due to tax breaks so more money retained in shareholders funds & higher dividends. Of course if UK corporation tax gets slashed to 10% then the UK will follow

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	US like Switzerland does not have to follow EU employment laws so will obviously have a more efficient & growing economies. It's not following a trend, it's chasing higher profits in cash. US is rising faster due to tax breaks so more money retained in shareholders funds & higher dividends. Of course if UK corporation tax gets slashed to 10% then the UK will follow

We'll test the theory when the overinflated US market inevitably crashes. I'll bet you we'll continue following it then too

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Facts are hard to swallow for some

	Quote:
	Brexit set to cost us more than the previous 47 years of payments to the EU combined...

The irony.

Why face up to a statistic when you can deflect with your own set of whataboutery, eh?