The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[gaburko]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Made in EU has a value of zero. Contrary to Made in Germany or Made in Switzerland.

London will soon find out what value it has

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Even within the EU there are many standards.

Take cars as an example:
- LHD or RHD - Not a standard
- Language versions - Not a standard
- Cold and warm climate versions - Not a standard

Apart from that, good point.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Take cars as an example: - LHD or RHD - Not a standard - Language versions - Not a standard - Cold and warm climate versions - Not a standard Apart from that, good point.

Then call it a product variation, perhaps more accurate.
You see it especially with food. THe same products often look and taste different in other countries.

And for a standard: electricity sockets and plugs of course.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	gaburko
	London will soon find out what value it has

That's positive.

[gaburko]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	That's positive.

The world out there is big and Britain ain't Great no more
Negotiating on your own when you are smaller, have less to offer and when your yester-friends are your competitors was never going to be an easy task.
Ultimately, I have no doubts that London will align with the EU and Brexit will ultimately be a soft one. There's simply no other rational choice.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You see it especially with food. THe same products often look and taste different in other countries.

You are seriously confusing standards with product variation. If I am a widget producer I can have 27 variants of my widget, all of which are different and all of which adhere to the EU standards. A UK widget manufacturer might have only 1 widget which doesn't comply with EU standards.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	And for a standard: electricity sockets and plugs of course.

yep, that's a good example. Every time I travel around Europe, I carry one plug. Everytime Boris visits Brussels his teams brings a truckload of adapters. Is there a pragmatic reason for this Britishness? No. Does it make British better off? No. Does it make EU better off? No. Brexit in a nutshell

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	gaburko
	The world out there is big and Britain ain't Great no more Negotiating on your own when you are smaller, have less to offer and when your yester-friends are your competitors was never going to be an easy task.

The most powerful entities have not looked for protection but have built their strength.

Switzerland was poor and austere for a long time, building up.

Negotiating when you are smaller and have lesser to offer teaches you to negotiate. Welcome to the real world.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Negotiating when you are smaller and have lesser to offer teaches you to negotiate. Welcome to the real world.

How is that relevant to Brexit when the UK was already a big hitter then burned all its bridges?

[gaburko]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	The most powerful entities have not looked for protection but have built their strength.

Agree. London however is not among "the most powerful entities" for quite a few decades now. It will stay like this, just the way things move. If you look at it, EU neither is among the most powerful entities, let Britain alone.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Negotiating when you are smaller and have lesser to offer teaches you to negotiate. Welcome to the real world.

I think you are seriously misunderstanding modern multinational trade negotiations. This is nothing to do with Hollywood style of passionate short speeches, but rather about technical details, voluminous documentation and ultimately, money.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	gaburko
	Agree. London however is not among "the most powerful entities" for quite a few decades now. It will stay like this, just the way things move. If you look at it, EU neither is among the most powerful entities, let Britain alone.

Good. So not much lost. Time to start rebuilding.

	Quote:
	I think you are seriously misunderstanding modern multinational trade negotiations. This is nothing to do with Hollywood style of passionate short speeches, but rather about technical details, voluminous documentation and ultimately, money.

Don't assume people disagree because they "seriously misunderstand". Especially from small places that cannot keep faking good old days or world importance.

[gaburko]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Good. So not much lost. Time to start rebuilding.

One starts to rebuild when something is destroyed. Nothing is destroyed yet.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Don't assume people disagree because they "seriously misunderstand".

You do seem to misunderstand because:

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Negotiating when you are smaller and have lesser to offer teaches you to negotiate.

And as I said, modern international trade negotiations are not "won" and "lost" because of short oratory skills. These are deep, lengthy technical discussions which at 2 AM on a Saturday night seem more like a war of attrition rather than glitzy gentlemanly chat over martini in an ambassadors residence.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	gaburko
	One starts to rebuild when something is destroyed. Nothing is destroyed yet.

Great! One doesn't read much positive stuff in the thread.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Great! One doesn't read much positive stuff in the thread.

I really do not think you understand. However I doubt you are capable if admitting that fact.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Why didn’t the story pasted that was written by arch Remainer Ian Dunt, famous for his emotional social media Brexit breakdowns, come in for the same criticism that this did?

Quite simply because of the integrity and breadth of knowledge of his sources. Most of them have chosen to be named.

And what you refer to as 'emotional social media Brexit breakdowns', where the inner thoughts of someone sitting in the press gallery reporting every minute of the most crucial debates, often into the early hours of the morning.

This article is based on conversations with...
David Bailey, professor of Business Economics at the Birmingham Business School
Meredith Crowley, international trade economist at the University of Cambridge
Piet Eeckhout, EU law professor and dean at the UCL Faculty of Laws
Andrew Kuyk, policy lead at the UK Seafood Industry Alliance
Philip McCann, professor of Urban and Regional Economics at Sheffield University Management School
Thomas Sampson, assistant professor in the Department of Economics at the LSE
Uta Staiger, executive director of the UCL European Institute
...and others in London and Brussels who chose not to be named.

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Even within the EU there are many standards. Take cars as an example: - LHD or RHD - Language versions - Cold and warm climate versions It's actually mostly a matter of good product design to manage this cost-efficiently.

I assume the auto manufacturers are more worried about fundamental standards rather than product features, standards like;
Fuel consumption
Exhaust emissions
Type approval
Allowed chemicals

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Quite simply because of the integrity and breadth of knowledge of his sources. Most of them have chosen to be named. And what you refer to as 'emotional social media Brexit breakdowns', where the inner thoughts of someone sitting in the press gallery reporting every minute of the most crucial debates, often into the early hours of the morning. This article is based on conversations with... David Bailey, professor of Business Economics at the Birmingham Business School Meredith Crowley, international trade economist at the University of Cambridge Piet Eeckhout, EU law professor and dean at the UCL Faculty of Laws Andrew Kuyk, policy lead at the UK Seafood Industry Alliance Philip McCann, professor of Urban and Regional Economics at Sheffield University Management School Thomas Sampson, assistant professor in the Department of Economics at the LSE Uta Staiger, executive director of the UCL European Institute ...and others in London and Brussels who chose not to be named.

He wasn’t sat in a press gallery on election night! The lack of self awareness he showed in that twitter thread was astonishing! (I’ve put the link below)

The article you posted made some interesting points, but it shouldn’t be forgotten that the author is an arch Remainer who firmly fits in to the category of someone who will never admit they were wrong even if Brexit turns out to be a roaring success.

Fatmanfilm’s article was also interesting and linked to the sources to back up the arguments that were being made. I thought that was something that was highly valued on englishforum.ch?!

https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/1205246743656501254

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	John William
	Tell me did you write Donald Trumps opening speech for him at Davos ?? Maybe, just maybe we might allow ourselves to get more optimistic for the future, if average global temperatures around the world were to stop rising or even be proved to be going in reverse, the Icelandic regions stopped melting and nuclear weapons and the means for producing them and other weapons of mass destruction was wiped off the face of the earth. You only have to look at Putin and Russia's new hypersonic missiles to know that things are not looking good on that front either. Instead it's only a question of when and not if the human race faces extinction like the dinosaurs.

It’s not often that I agree with Preisdent Trump but some of what he said regarding alarmists in that speech was absolutely right!

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Fatmanfilm’s article was also interesting and linked to the sources to back up the arguments that were being made. I thought that was something that was highly valued on englishforum.ch?!

Clearly you didn’t pay any attention to the age of most of the sources in the links. Crowbarring in 10 year old stats to somehow prove a point is laughable.

If that’s the quality of info you’re happy with I’m sure I can dig up a source that proves life in the UK was better in 2009 than it was in 1709 therefore remaining in the EU is obviously better without a shadow of a doubt.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	gaburko
	Agree. London however is not among "the most powerful entities" for quite a few decades now. It will stay like this, just the way things move. If you look at it, EU neither is among the most powerful entities, let Britain alone. .

BJ is courting African leaders these days. Makes promises he has no intention to keep (e.g. relaxing immigration from African states. What he promises now was never impeded by the EU, but perhaps the Africans don't know). Let's see whom will he be courting next and what his sweet words will be. It's poker.

[fatmanfilms]

Back to reality, just 1 week to go, how exciting.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Back to reality, just 1 week to go, how exciting.

Yes, it's a fair old pantomime for all those of us who don't actually live there, eh?